Misnamed dwarf Thalictrum?

[zephirine]

Hello all!
I bought this plant 5 or 6 years ago as Thalictrum koreanum. But I couldn't find any information on such a plant, so I suppose it was misnamed...
It proved to be a tough and lovely ground cover, expanding nicely with time, blooming sparsely but for a long time in a half shady position, in pretty hard clayish soil.
I had also tried Thalictrum kiusianum, but I lost it on  the second winter. It was quite a different plant, in fact:
The so-called  "koreanum" has light green, nearly perfectly rounded leaves, not as irregular as kiusianum, and twice as large as those of kiusianum. It is taller also, say the leaf mound is over 2 inches high, and the flowers reaching 4 inches in height (kiusianum was closer to 1 to 1.5 inches, blooming at maximum 3 inches, in the same growing conditions).
The "koreanum" habit is a dense mound, the various leaves overlapping and merely covering the soil, while kiusianum was much more transparent.
Does anyone know/recognize this lovely plant?

[Maggi Young]

Very pretty, Nicole... so sorry... Zepherine 
Maybe a form of Thalictrum ichangense  


http://www.pepinieredesavettes.com/pepiniere/thalictrum-ichangense-nouveaute-2011,742,asso==413,theme==0

http://wildflower.kr/xe/index.php?mid=web100&search_target=extra_vars3&search_keyword=%EA%BF%A9%EC%9D%98%EB%8B%A4%EB%A6%AC%EC%86%8D&document_srl=20001547

[Rick R.]

You may find this paper interesting (if it doesn't make your head spin first!).  And toward the bottom of the first column, first page, it explains the difference between T. ichangense and T. coreanum.

[Brian Ellis]

If this is any help Nicole, this is Thalictrum ichangense v minus from Crûg plants. (Sorry about the bits of dead Caulophyllum in the background

[Lesley Cox]

That's a very cute little flower Brian. Just like you.

[zephirine]

Oh thank you for your help, all of you!
Silly me, I hadn't even thought of changing koreanum for coreanum!!!!
From your pictures and links, I'm confident it must be Thalictrum coreanum then: T. ichangense seems to have more or less markings on the leaves, while my plant is plain green.
Very interesting link, Rick, I'll have increased respect for my plant's styles in the future!  
I love the "ventrally indistinctly stigmatic" idea! Lol...Could someone clarify it for me? Does it mean (just a rough guess) that the styles central part, resembling some sort of a belly, does not show any intention of separating into stigmas?
Thank you for introducing T. ichangense to me, Maggi and Brian-Lesley's-cutie! I'll have to try it if I can! Lovely markings indeed!
And since it has so many similarities with my Thalictrum (k)coreanum that one might be a variant of the other, it would certainly be a welcome new recruit for my garden!
Thanks again!
Zephirine

(Hum hum, Maggi, I'm afraid you mentioned some other french lady's christian name... ...)

[Gunilla]

Thalictrum ichangense is very cute  (as is Brian).  I visited Crug Farm this spring and couldn't resist the dark leaved variety, T. ichangense v. minus 'Chinese Chintz'

[Paul T]

Gee, at this rate we're going to have to start a topic just dedicated to admiring Brian!! 

 

Cute little Thalictrums, all of them.  I love that dark leaved variety.

[Brian Ellis]

My apologies to the fan club  I have only just seen your replies (falls off chair in hysterics as I am more akin to the dead Caulophyllum foliage)!  I'm glad we have solved your problem between us Nicole, these miniature Thalictrums are really nice...as are the giant ones like T.reniforme and T.Elin!

[zephirine]

I think we can derive from the latest posts that Dead Caulophyllum Leaves are more popular, by far, than was normally expected!
Sorry, Brian, but "Nicole" is another member, I'm afraid...
(No use to give you my official christian name, since my family uses an old nickname with me, and 99% of my friends have adopted "Zeph", "Zephke" ,"Zephrineke" (belgian versions), or "Zephy" instead. The official one is now only used in my professional or administrative life!   )

[Maggi Young]

(Hum hum, Maggi, I'm afraid you mentioned some other french lady's christian name... Grin...)

Oh, my goodness, so I did.... Zephy, my mistake... there are so many chic Franch ladies here, you know

I do agree that these small thalictrums are very appealing. I cannot say we see a great many grown in the gardens I know here. 

[Brian Ellis]

(Hum hum, Maggi, I'm afraid you mentioned some other french lady's christian name... Grin...)

Oh, my goodness, so I did.... Zephy, my mistake... there are so many chic Franch ladies here, you know

I do agree that these small thalictrums are very appealing. I cannot say we see a great many grown in the gardens I know here. 

My apologies too Zephy, I put it down to wear and tear of the grey cells in the brain department

[zephirine]

Oh  never mind, Maggi and Brian! No problem! It happens to me too!

I'm also surprised of the restrained audience for these tiny thalictrums.They are really tough, and good ground-covers, ideal for the border edge, and making a very nice contrast with many other half-shade plants with more lanceolate or large leaves.
Don't you think they might suffer for the reputation of their taller cousins, often considered as difficult to satisfy?
Aquilegifolium, Elin, Rochebruneanum and other beauties do grow in my garden, all right, but they don't clump up, I must say, and seldom catch the eye of the passer-by with their clouds of tiny flowers.. I would have to plant half  a dozen of them in the same spot, at least, to have a decent sized clump.

[Maggi Young]

Yes, I think the little ones may be thought of as having the habits of their big brothers.

The little ones can look very attractive at he egde of a raised bed... we use T. kiusianum in this way... it brings the delicate plants up to nearer eye level and shows off the dainty flowers  very well.

[maggiepie]

These little thalictrums are all gorgeous.
Probably the main reason why lots of people aren't growing them is because they can't get their hands on any.
I would grow them all if I could.