London Riots

[Lesley Cox]

I never have supported and don't and never will support the death penalty, in any circumstance as I believe it makes those who apply it as barbaric as those to whom it may be applied but there's good reason to give many young people a thorough kick up the end as a salutory lesson and to discourage further offending.

The death penalty is one reason why I never sign petitons on matters of crime and punishment (saving the local penguin colony, sure) and the binding petition on any criminal or political matter is truly an abomination as it ensures the mob rules, or, to be more restrained in terminology, those whose ideology is extreme, fanatical and (almost always) ultra right wing, will win the day and ensure that dangerous and sometimes downright evil intentions are bound into law.

[Darren]

I agree with all your comments Alan. But the remarks about hoodies, tracksuit and trainers made me smile: When I was in the bus queue last night a young lad wearing exactly that 'uniform' joined us carrying a new dartboard. One of the pensioners asked him here he had looted it from....

I confess it made me laugh at the time (dry, robust, northern humour at it's sharpest) but my feelings on it are quite mixed really.

[Martin Baxendale]

I'd like to make clear that I'm not in any way defending the actions of the looters. I was just trying to say that at some point there has to be a discussion about how  this kind of incident can be prevented in the future, and the studies indicate that (whatever anyone might feel about it) there is a higher incidence of this kind of disturbance in societies where there are very large inequality gaps than in societies where the inequality gap is narrower. Logic suggests that this needs to be part of the answer (perhaps not the whole answer, but at least part of it) and that politicians allowing the inequality gap to continually widen is likely to make things worse, not better.

[Martin Baxendale]

Apologies for sounding a bit like Spock pontificating on the bridge of the USS Enterprise.

[Anthony Darby]

I agree with you. Public spending is being reduced because there is less money, probably because it is now heading into the private sector who are making more money than ever. The people with less depend on public services which are now being cut. It always annoys me when the politicians tell us that reducing the spending will not reduce services, such as education. They then spend more than the average salary sending 'Horatia' to some private school, not for the education, but to keep them away from the "riff-raff".

Live long and prosper Martin.

[Paul T]

Tai nasha no karosha, Martin.

[Tim Ingram]

It seems in a way that the brilliant piece in "Life of Brian" - 'I am not an individual!' sums a lot up. You are either part of a crowd or you think for your self. The latter is hard. It can only come with good education and a level of tolerance for others. This sort of terrible behaviour will always be around - the trick is trying to stop it being expressed. But I would hate to be one of the people trying to control things when they go wrong. I would agree that the great disparities in wealth that can build up in society underlie a lot of this, plus a lack of respect and understanding of others, something that must be a consequence of family breakdown. Wealth and initiative makes society develop but also leads to envy and greed. Values tend to become more obvious when times are hard, individually or collectively, though sadly probably not to the people who need them most!

[Martin Baxendale]

Lack of respect and consideration for other people is certainly part of this problem and I think a major problem in society at large these days - people of all kinds seeming to think that they only need to take into consideration what they want without ever considering how what they do and how they behave can impact on  others around them. Rudeness and barefaced self-centredness seem to be on the increase generally.

[Kristl Walek]

I normally avoid political, social and religious posts, but following on the heels of some of Martin's comments---

As a member of the "poor and disenfranchised" I was a 17 year old living with my single mom and sister in the downtown ghetto when Detroit burned for 5 days in 1967. Although publicly branded as a "race riot," the five days of madness, fire and looting were sparked by a single event (as they usually are)---and were certainly not limited to race. The "trigger" is almost always a psychological "last straw" to a life of poverty in a society marked by inequality (socio-economic and otherwise).

After the fact, the Kerner Commission reported the "causes of the riot" as: housing, unemployment, quality of public education, access to medical services, policing, spatial segregation within the city, mistreatment by merchants, shortage of recreational facilities and “the way the war on poverty operated in Detroit.”

To this day, I know that the color of my skin was *the only thing* that ultimately saved me from the fate that many of my then-neighbours succumbed to, both during the riots and in the years after, as we worked to claw our way out of what felt like insurmountable obstacles in a society of haves and have nots.

Because I am an ultimate "success story" considering my socio-economic roots; does not mean that we are all equal and able to achieve success "if we just try". The variables are infinitely more complex than that although they seem easy to analyze when on the outside looking in.

I "escaped" from the economic disparity of life in the USA as quickly as I could upon becoming an adult, away from the underlying current of constant unrest and fear.

Life in Canada, from the beginning, felt full of possibility and hope. What was different? This was a country not yet poisoned by inequality and it is here where I was able to fully become who I am and realize my human potential.

[johnw]

Many socail injustices here too that have to be addressed but as in the Vancouver riot of a few months ago I bet when the scoundrels are lined up before the judge you will find quite a few affluent young people.

johnw

[Anthony Darby]

This sums it all up!
People born before 1946 were called The Silent generation..

- People born between 1946 and 1959 are called The Baby Boomers

- People born between 1960 and 1979 are called Generation X

- And people born between 1980 and 2010 are called Generation Y

Why do we call the last group Generation Y?
Y should I get a job?
Y should I leave home and find my own place?
Y should I get a car when I can borrow yours?
Y should I clean my room?
Y should I wash and iron my own clothes?
Y should I buy any food?

But a cartoonist has explained it very eloquently...

[Panu]

I just went front of a mirror and didn´t see the Y. Then I turned around, bent and saw the X or should I say *

[Anthony Darby]

 
The riots have reached Edinburgh!

[This link appears to have been stopped. Imagine an empty street apart from a chap standing next to a couple of wheely bins. Suddenly his hand slowly moves up and tips the empty wheely bin over.]

[art600]

I am sure there is deprivation in Scotland and Wales, yet looting and arson did not occur. 

Rioting in Northern Ireland is almost, if not entirely, 'politically' motivated.

Why do the English riot, loot and set fire to their community 

Why do they attack ordinary shopkeepers - hairdressers, greengrocers etc.  Looting the jewellery store, the Carphone Warehouse and the electrical stores is understandable if greed was the only reason.

Salford has been the centre for huge community efforts over the last several years, yet it was the scene of some of the worst riots.

I don't know the answers, but I certainly hope they are found.

[arillady]

Kristl and Martin thank you for posting your points of view.
Empathy seems to be lacking in much of society.
If people could walk in the other's shoes our society might be a whole lot more tolerant of others.
The riots, boat people, and wind farms seem to be dividing people locally.