London Riots

[David Nicholson]

Conversely, why Gloucester???

Complete and utter boredom I suspect

[Martin Baxendale]

Arthur, been thinking about your questions about why riots in England but not Scotland or Wales, and only in  certain cities and towns and not others.

It may be at least partly due to the way news and organisation of the riots spread amongst those who took part.

London was first, then there were 'copycat' riots elsewhere. So I imagine these kinds of things tend to spread out from the epicentre, with people closer feeling more linked to it than people farther away, even in other countries like Wales and Scotland, who feel it's less to do with them.

More importantly, it seems that people were messaging out to groups of friends to urge rioting and looting on social networks like facebook and Blackberry messaging, so the news and plans would spread through those messaging friendship groups. People in London would be most likely to have friends in other not too distant English towns and cities, and much less likely to have friends in their social networking groups in Scotland and Wales.

[Martin Baxendale]

Sorry, may not have made my point very clearly. What I mean is that initially groups of messaging friends would be mainly confined to London with just a few friends in any group being elsewhere. But as those friends elsewhere got news and encouragement to join in, they would message out to their own groups of friends, who would again be mainly local to their city or town, and if enough happen to get something started there then it kicks off. Probably just chance where enough concentrations of willing participants built up - but as you move away from the South East of England, the less likely it is that many people would be getting messages from friends in the South East.

Hope that makes sense.

[art600]

Martin

I am sure that social networks played a large part in spreading the violence and looting, but it still leaves unanswered why not Scotland and Wales, and why Gloucester - boredom is not an answer David.

[David Nicholson]

Martin

I am sure that social networks played a large part in spreading the violence and looting, but it still leaves unanswered why not Scotland and Wales, and why Gloucester - boredom is not an answer David.

Arthur, I once worked and lodged in Gloucester for a short while and believe me it could bore for England

[art600]

I don't tweet, and am not a member of Facebook - although so many unknown people want to be my friend.  

And I can exist without a mobile phone.  

[Martin Baxendale]

According to the police that's what was going on - young people using mainly the Blackberry messaging service which is impossible to trace and listen in to, to encourage and organise friends. There was a big piece about it on the latest BBC Click techno programme explaining it all and how that's what made it so difficult for the police to tell where the trouble was going to occur, because Blackberry messaging is very secure (encrypted in fact!)

[Martin Baxendale]

Sorry, Arthur. I mis-read your comment as "I am NOT sure that social networks played a large part". Sorry.

[art600]

Martin

Although Blackberry messages are secure at time of transmission, I note that the network will give the police info to track down the instigators of the problems.

[Martin Baxendale]

Yes, the Blackberry people are supposed to be talking to the police to help as much as they can within the law and the data protection act, but only after the fact. At the time of the trouble, there was no way the police or anyone else could listen in on the messaging that was going on. All kinds of civil liberties issues involved in this of course.

[Maggi Young]

I suppose it would be incorrect of me to wonder how such 'poor' folks can afford computers to be on facebook and Blackberry devices, which, the last time I saw an advert, were far from my price range?

[mark smyth]

Two friends say rioting in Belfast, Londonderry ... is for something to do and the excitement.

I remember years ago a pre teen or just in to teens kid was hit by a rubber bullet. The parent said something like "wee Johnny wouldnt be out rioting"

[Martin Baxendale]

This whole issue seems to have been a very divisive one here in the UK and I've personally seen people in the local pubs getting very heated and nearly coming to blows over it, which seems like a real shame. I'd like to say that I'm glad we've been able to discuss it in this thread in a reasonably civilised way without going for one another's throats and without tempers being lost. Sorry if that sounds patronising to anyone, but it has been quite saddening to see friends falling out over this. Enough damage has been done without that.

[Lesley Cox]

People in London would be most likely to have friends in other not too distant English towns and cities, and much less likely to have friends in their social networking groups in Scotland and Wales.

Because the Scots and the Welsh speak unspeakable languages and the English wouldn't know how to communicate with them.   (Do, please, note the laughing smileys here.)

[Lesley Cox]

I suppose it would be incorrect of me to wonder how such 'poor' folks can afford computers to be on facebook and Blackberry devices, which, the last time I saw an advert, were far from my price range?

I wonder such things too Maggi. In social welfare reforms announced yesterday, all aimed at the young and/or unemployed, some comentators were amazed that families couldn't cope on their benefits when "they don't drink or smoke and they don't gamble." Maybe not but someone was having to pay of the 4WD Jeep at the gate and the 52" flat scrreen LED TV! not to mention the loan sharks they'd borrowed from to purchase these things in the first place.