Crocus November 2011

[Oron Peri]

Crocus season starts here in November.
Between the first to flower today there is this particular one.
It was given to me by David Stephens 3 years ago as a tiny corm of C. mathewii.
Yesterday, when in bud, i thought it to be virused, but today when opened it looks healthy....

[Oron Peri]

A few others;

veneris - Ex cyprus
tuornefortii -Ex Crete
ochroleucus 'Dalton Album'
pallasii album from Mt. Meron

[tonyg]

That's a very striking Crocus mathewii Oron.  It looks healthy from what we can see, despite the unusual markings.  I grow a form/hybrid of Crocus tommasinianus called 'Wandering Minstrel' which has very similar patterns on the outer petals.  Found in a garden (his?) by John Grimshaw, it is vigorous, appears healthy and shows no sign of virus infection.  John explained to me once how the markings are a stable genetic 'aberration', not virus.

[David Nicholson]

A couple from the greenhouse today.

Firstly Crocus laevigatus, a kind gift from Gerry earlier in the year. I have to say that laevigatus is one of my favourite Crocuses.

Crocus serotinus ssp clusii 'Poseidon'. this one a gift from Rafa way back in 2008. In previous years I had it in a pot outside and it wasn't happy at all but has flowered for me this year in the greenhouse. Yes, I know, the snails love it as well and the aphid is no more.

[Janis Ruksans]

Crocus season starts here in November.
Between the first to flower today there is this particular one.
It was given to me by David Stephens 3 years ago as a tiny corm of C. mathewii.
Yesterday, when in bud, i thought it to be virused, but today when opened it looks healthy....

Oh, Oron,
My opinion - 100% virus, not rattle virus as flowers open in sun and petals are smooth. But it very resembles tulip stripe virus. I didn't hear about it on Iridaceae, but world changes. If it would be genetical - striping would be more or less regular and similar/identical on each petal, but here it is very irregular - very typical for virus infections. But I never before saw something similar on crocuses. My recommendation - take a pot away and keep in other corner of garden. In your climate are so many aphids that transferring of virus is very possible.
By the way - today I sprayed all my greenhouses as found a lot of aphids on shoots of Alliums wintering with leaves. Never before expected that. Very long and warm autumn helped so late invasion. Fortunately crocuses were clean. Normally I'm not using chemicals on my bulbs with very few exceptions.
Janis

[krisderaeymaeker]

Here Crocus melantherus keep going . I like it even more outside as inside ...

[Janis Ruksans]

Some pictures made yesterday, nothing new and special, only more developed than earlier.
Crocus cambessedesii trade form
Crocus hyemalis from Dirk and Rik
Crocus laevigatus from Ray Cobb and Goldback
Crocus ochroleucus Dalton White
Crocus tournefortii from AH and from Carpathos
and as last autumn vitellinus more developed
Janis

[Lesley Cox]

The Ray Cobb laevigatus ios very handsome.
I had a seed pod on the gold backed laevigatus a couple of weeks ago. Just 4 seeds though.

[Boyed]

Crocus season starts here in November.
Between the first to flower today there is this particular one.
It was given to me by David Stephens 3 years ago as a tiny corm of C. mathewii.
Yesterday, when in bud, i thought it to be virused, but today when opened it looks healthy....

Oron,

I agree with Janis and I even dom't doubt that it is virus. We should take into account that crocuses are susseptable to different kind of viruses, among which is colour breaking virus as well. I don't see any symmetry in striping, each petal has its own colour pattern. I observed this case on crocuses.

[Gerry Webster]

It was given to me by David Stephens 3 years ago as a tiny corm of C. mathewii.
Yesterday, when in bud, i thought it to be virused, but today when opened it looks healthy....

Oron - in my opinion it is impossible to decide, purely on the basis of appearance, whether this is a virus infection or a genetic variant.

[Janis Ruksans]

It was given to me by David Stephens 3 years ago as a tiny corm of C. mathewii.
Yesterday, when in bud, i thought it to be virused, but today when opened it looks healthy....

Oron - in my opinion it is impossible to decide, purely on the basis of appearance, whether this is a virus infection or a genetic variant.

Gerry, it is common mistake of many amateur growers, especially between Iris growers. Plants are rare, difficult to grow and then come out "theories" about genetic changes, chimeras, hybride origin etc., etc. We so love our plants, that it is difficult to throw them away (destroy) especially when they are grown from seed so many years till first blooming. May be sometimes they are healthy, but as I wrote before better destroy 10 healthy than left one infected. In this case flower definitely looks as virus infected.
Janis

[Gerry Webster]

It was given to me by David Stephens 3 years ago as a tiny corm of C. mathewii.
Yesterday, when in bud, i thought it to be virused, but today when opened it looks healthy....

Oron - in my opinion it is impossible to decide, purely on the basis of appearance, whether this is a virus infection or a genetic variant.

Gerry, it is common mistake of many amateur growers, especially between Iris growers. Plants are rare, difficult to grow and then come out "theories" about genetic changes, chimeras, hybride origin etc., etc. We so love our plants, that it is difficult to throw them away (destroy) especially when they are grown from seed so many years till first blooming. May be sometimes they are healthy, but as I wrote before better destroy 10 healthy than left one infected. In this case flower definitely looks as virus infected.
Janis

Janis -  I can think of at least three causal explanations for the appearance of Oron's crocus:

1. Virus infection.
2. Genetic mutation with morphologically variable expressivity.
3. Somatic mutation.

While I agree that this looks rather like virus infection I still maintain that one cannot make a decision between these alternatives based  purely on appearance - this  really would involve  the (unsubstantiated) "theories" of "amateur growers". Whether it is always better to assume the worst or to wait & see is an individual decision.

[Gerry Webster]

The Ray Cobb laevigatus ios very handsome.
I had a seed pod on the gold backed laevigatus a couple of weeks ago. Just 4 seeds though.

Lesley - The rather similar C. laevigatus recently posted by David (reply #3, November 02) also came from Ray Cobb via Alan Edwards. Ray apparently had it from Ronald Ginns, so it has a distinguished pedigree.

Seedlings from this form are very variable; some have 'gold' backs, though the colour fades very quickly.

[Pascal B]

Janis -  I can think of at least three causal explanations for the appearance of Oron's crocus:

1. Virus infection.
2. Genetic mutation with morphologically variable expressivity.
3. Somatic mutation.

While I agree that this looks rather like virus infection I still maintain that one cannot make a decision between these alternatives based  purely on appearance - this  really would involve  the (unsubstantiated) "theories" of "amateur growers". Whether it is always better to assume the worst or to wait & see is an individual decision.

Gerry, I have to say I agree with Janis on this. All 3 causal explanations you give are just hypothesis until the specimen is properly tested for virus, wait and see is not a test. If testing is not an option or the owner does not think it is worth the investment to get it tested the danger is IF it is a virus it might spread and if material from that collection is spread to other collectors, so does the virus. In some genera (Lilium, most Arisaema) getting seeds and then destroying the infected plants is an option but better safe than sorry.... Certainly in important collections that contain rare plants or forms, assuming the worst is not only the safest but also the most responsible thing to do as these collections are basically safehouses for endangered plants. And Oron grows some pretty rare plants by the look of it.

[David Nicholson]

The Ray Cobb laevigatus ios very handsome.
I had a seed pod on the gold backed laevigatus a couple of weeks ago. Just 4 seeds though.

Lesley - The rather similar C. laevigatus recently posted by David (reply #3, November 02) also came from Ray Cobb via Alan Edwards. Ray apparently had it from Ronald Ginns, so it has a distinguished pedigree.

Seedlings from this form are very variable; some have 'gold' backs, though the colour fades very quickly.

Gee! I 've hit the "big time"