Comments/Questions SRGC Seed Ex. List No, 65

[maggiepie]

Hi Rick, does this mean that the only surplus seeds that will be available will be seeds that nobody had  listed as first choices?
That if there were say, 300 seeds of Campanula barbata for example were in the kitty and two people asked for them that they would get half each?

Hi Helen,

I think the minimum number of labels for any item is five.  The number of preprinted labels for item "X" is likely more than the largest number ever previously ordered for item "X".  We still have plenty of leftovers after the first round, and the second round.  Yes we have extra, but not as much as would have been automatically generated by making so many more packets than needed from the very start.  The idea is to try to better balance the enormous amount of work needed to operate the exchange with a more accurate estimation of actual need.

I don't know how first choice items versus second choice items fit into the calculation of future number of labels printed.

To your hypothetical question: if there were 15 preprinted labels for Campanula barbata, the seed would be divide into a minimum of 15 parts for 15 packets.  If only two people ordered the species, they would each get one packet.  The rest would go into the second round of the exchange.  

I don't know what the default number of packets would be for a species that has never been listed before.  It (and many other parameters) would certainly be something that could/would be tweaked by each individual plant society's seed exchange.  The SYSTEM can be modified to meet SRGC's needs and wants, which may or may not be the same as that of NARGS.

Thanks for the explanation, Rick.

[chriswil]

Just wanted to thank everyone involved in the 2012 seed exchange for a job well done! Also wanted to let any other members overseas to know that the seeds should start arriving soon. Here at the nursery our seeds arrived yesterday. We are thrilled to have gotten most of our top choices. Although we live abroad, membership in the SRGC is cherished dearly.

[Maggi Young]

Just wanted to thank everyone involved in the 2012 seed exchange for a job well done! Also wanted to let any other members overseas to know that the seeds should start arriving soon. Here at the nursery our seeds arrived yesterday. We are thrilled to have gotten most of our top choices. Although we live abroad, membership in the SRGC is cherished dearly.

 Good to know the seeds are getting through the post to the USA..... all you folks are valued members, you know - the Club may be based in Scotland but the importance of our international membership is never to be underestimated.

[BryanEmery]

Well seeds are all planted! Another huge thank you to all that helped make the seed ex a big success!

B

[fermi de Sousa]

I know the SRGC seed packeting team have a system for estimating the demand based on many previous years requests. This number is known as 'Henry's' as it was originally Henry and Margaret Taylor that did that job for many years and the name sticks both out of affection and honour this famous SRGC couple.
I have been in favour and pushing the SRGC to adopt packet labeling for around ten years now but I am not the one carrying out this much appreciated work.

Hi Ian,
the individually labelled packets from NARGS mean that we don't need to include the printed list of numbers and corresponding names for our (Australian) Quarantine Inspection (AQIS) which is a time saver for the applicant but also for the societies such as the AGS where Diane had to do each letter herself (or so it seemed!) for those who applied on-line and didn't send in a typed out list. Each system has its advantages and disadvantages but at this present time these seem to be working for us in Australia!
The SRGC on-line system is great and I could work it easily and open different pages including the AQIS list of allowed and prohibited species (ICON) as well as a "search engine" to look up names with which I was unfamiliar.
cheers
fermi

[Diane Clement]

the individually labelled packets from NARGS mean that we don't need to include the printed list of numbers and corresponding names for our (Australian) Quarantine Inspection (AQIS) which is a time saver for the applicant but also for the societies such as the AGS where Diane had to do each letter herself (or so it seemed!) for those who applied on-line and didn't send in a typed out list. Each system has its advantages and disadvantages but at this present time these seem to be working for us in Australia!

Fermi, the letter I do for the Australian, NZ and US members is easy if they order on line.  Our helpers making up orders use a highlighter pen on the printed order form as a check of what has been sent.  I then go into their online order, delete or add the numbers to match their order, and a bit of wizardry generates the letter with the names on.  The snail mail handwritten ones take longer, as I have to key the numbers into the system but this also generates the letter.  The ones that really take the long time are the US orders for 200 or 400 packets of surplus, where the numbers do have to be keyed in individually from the packets.  (Aussies and NZ rarely order surplus, because of their white list issues)

We have toyed with the idea of labelling the seed packets over the years for the AGS exchange.  I can see a lot of advantages.  The countries with import letters would be easier to administer (although would you still not need a letter listing the taxa??).  The labelling for selling at shows would not need to be done (this is happening now, after the distribution is finished).  There would be no instances of number errors from the packers where two numbers get transposed or misread.  The advantages are clear, the disadvantages come down to more work at the seed reception stage.   

We have a similar system (I think) to the SRGC in estimating the number of packets required.  I look at the previous 3 years packing numbers and audit numbers (what is left after the main and surplus distributions) and apply a formula - if they all went, pack more, if we had some left, pack less.  New names we make a guess on (woody plants and annuals - pack 5, anything new and exciting - pack the lot, anything herbaceous with an unusual cultivar name - pack the lot).  The problem is the fluidity of the donations, leading to an average every year of about 30% names on any one year's list which were not on the previous year's.  Using previous years figures is therefore essential (I have ten years of packing and audit figures available).  So I reckon that it would be possible to estimate the quantities of some taxa needed, in advance (although that presupposes we get the quantities donated, not always the case.  For example, we usually get a lot of Paeonia mlokosewitchii donated, but this year hardly we didn't have enough to meet need.  Not helped by me not bothering to collect my own as I thought we would have plenty  ).  There have also been problems due to climatic fluctuations, so this year we have had a shortage of bulbous seed and cyclamen, presumably because a lot have been lost due to the previous couple of years bad winters.  But because of people losing them, they then request the seed of those taxa, a sort of lose-lose situation for us.   

The biggest problem is getting the labels done in advance of making up the packing boxes, as the final check on what seeds we have is changing daily in the late stages, due to late seed coming in.  And I can't really estimate the final packing numbers of a lot of taxa before I see the quantities sent in.  This year we have made up 100 boxes to go out to packers each containing enough to make up about 1200 packets, making a final total of 120,000+ packets so the whole job is massive.  Whenever I see the labels on NARGS packets I suspect that the quantities handled by NARGS are a lot less than us. 

But it is certainly an area I will think again about. 
 

[Maggi Young]

Regarding the need for  a list of packets as well as the names on the packets for certain import areas.... I think Diane is correct ( she usually is, y'know) 

[Lesley Cox]

So far as New Zealand is concerned, a list of the packets wouldn't be needed if the names were ON the packets. We previously had to include a list written by ourselves because MAF had only numbers to see. The AGS and SRGC have made the members' job so much easier and also that of MAF who know there are no mistakes in the list supplied by members previously. It can happen, as in writing 618 instead of 816. I often do it when writing a phone number for future reference.

We of course are happy with anything that has made it easier for MAF to check our seeds as they do have the ability, if provoked, to become nasty - like putting on outrageous costs for inspections. Their regulations (Biosecurity Act) permit them to do so (it works out, at present at about $75 per 15 mins plus GST) but if all is well with the overall packet, they have so far chosen not to apply these costs to private (as distinct from commercial) importers.

[Diane Clement]

Lesley, a few years ago we were told that a handwritten list was not acceptable, so at that point we started to include a copy of the full seed list.  After a few years, that was no longer acceptable either, as the officials couldn't spend the time looking up the numbers, and so since then we have done the printed lists.   

[Maggi Young]

Lesley, a few years ago we were told that a handwritten list was not acceptable, so at that point we started to include a copy of the full seed list.  After a few years, that was no longer acceptable either, as the officials couldn't spend the time looking up the numbers, and so since then we have done the printed lists.   

 I remember a  long spell of sitting with copies of the lists highlighting the numbers of the seeds that were going in packets..... 

[Lesley Cox]

Thanks for that Diane. I didn't know MAF had made a decision about it. We ourselves - or certainly I - were/was never told that the handwritten list was unacceptable. I always wondered why AGS had started putting in a copy of the actual seedlist when our own lists - I typed mine - were so much quicker to access.

Maggi, sorry about the hours expended. You all, "over there" go the extra mile and even further for the sake of overseas members. I wish there was something we could do at this end to repay.

[Maggi Young]

Keep paying your subs, and find a pal to join too.... that's all we ask!  

Reminds me of our last group meeting... encouraging folksto sign up for the bus trip to the early bulb Day in Dunblane, I said it would be great if everyone brought a friend along . Ian said that wasn't good enough, they could bring three friends! I felt I had to admit that most of us might not HAVE three friends! 
Except Angela, she'd manage it. 

[Maggi Young]

Question just in: how to germinate Ranzania japonica or Helonopsis orientalis?
or are these short lived seeds that have no hope? (having been through the seed ex)

[Lesley Cox]

I wanted to say, in regard to recruiting members but not sure where to say it, but here's OK I think since Maggi mentioned paying our subs and bringing a pal (whew, could hardly get that out without forgetting what I wanted to say), oh yes.

My January Journal arrived on Saturday and one thing that struck me forcibly was what a great thing it is. What I wanted to say was that while many Forumists both active and lurkers have great pleasure in the Forum itself, perhaps they feel it is not, therefore important to join SRGC as a member. I mean, maybe they think the Forum does everything. But that's not the case. The articles and photographs in the Journals add a huge extra dimension and double the benefits the club as a whole, provides. This is even more so for those who live in the UK or are perhaps near enough to hop over the channel occasionally, with the shows, discussion weekends, local group activities and all the person to person friendships that membership involves.

So please think of joining the Club and being not just a Forumist, but a full member if you are not one already. You won't possibly regret it.

[tetsuo]

Question just in: how to germinate Ranzania japonica or Helonopsis orientalis?
or are these short lived seeds that have no hope? (having been through the seed ex)

Gin the seeds were dried, Ranzania japonica easily goes into curious dormancy and do not
 germinate. Hepatica japonica is same. The donors of their seeds had better keep the seeds
in wet condition in sand etc. until Seed Exchange.
I do not grow Heloniopsis orientalis from seeds. They are easily propagated by planting
leaves. Buds are sprouting from both ends of the leaf. I think the best way is to get some
leaves from your friend. I post a picture.