Winter Narcissus - to early 2012

[Kees Green]

Thanks for the advise Ian and co, I will start watering mine soon then so that they have the water they need. Maybe another month yet before a water.

[ArnoldT]

Wonderful scent.

Narcissus assoanus minutus

[Alex]

Narcissus cantabricus petunioides just starting to get going. I don't know if you all agree with the use of that name (whatever it means...), this stock has been circulating under it for 30 years that I know of, and probably longer, but that doesn't necessarily give any authority as we know!

Alex

[annew]

It is an exceptionally fine form, Alex, the name seems good to me, but Rafa is the man to ask.
Arnold, is it very minute? It's certainly very early, compared to over here.

[Gerry Webster]

Alex - The Kew Checklist regards it as a synonym for Narcissus cantabricus subsp. cantabricus. According to Blanchard, until very recently all the bulbs in cultivation derive from a single bulb which his father received from van Tubergen in the 1930s. He states that similar forms have been found  by himself & Mike Salmon in Morocco.

[ArnoldT]

Anne:
what measurement can I take to determine 'minuteness'?

[Maggi Young]

Anne:
what measurement can I take to determine 'minuteness'?

Actual measurements, Arnold... then an opinion can be formed! 

[ArnoldT]

Maggi:

Measurements of what parts or all parts?

[Maggi Young]

Maggi:

Measurements of what parts or all parts?

  Corolla spread, trumpet length, stem height,thank you    

[ArnoldT]

There is one tall stem but four others measure:

Corolla spread 11 mm
Trumpet length 11 mm
Stem length 7.6 cm

[Maggi Young]

There is one tall stem but four others measure:

Corolla spread 11 mm
Trumpet length 11 mm
Stem length 7.6 cm

Oh, it is minute....How sweet!

[krisderaeymaeker]

Narcissus cantabricus petunioides just starting to get going. I don't know if you all agree with the use of that name (whatever it means...), this stock has been circulating under it for 30 years that I know of, and probably longer, but that doesn't necessarily give any authority as we know!
Alex

Splendid Alex ! Even with another name ....

[annew]

Unfortunately we get into the nomenclature problem again - how to distinguish the petunioid types from the 'standard' cantabricus shapes? Maybe we should use 'petunioides group'? Otherwise we're going to end up with things the way they were before Linnaeus, having to use a paragraph to describe a plant where a couple of words would do.

[annew]

Arnold your assoanus sounds very nice. Why does that sound a bit rude? 

[Gerry Webster]

Unfortunately we get into the nomenclature problem again - how to distinguish the petunioid types from the 'standard' cantabricus shapes? Maybe we should use 'petunioides group'? Otherwise we're going to end up with things the way they were before Linnaeus, having to use a paragraph to describe a plant where a couple of words would do.

My understanding  is that all the bulbocodiums are very variable & that petunioid forms are just one extreme - I've found they crop up now & again in seedlings of N. romieuxii as, of course, have other people. I presume that this is the reason why Kew rejects the name as a botanical name. It might be useful to have some name for the purposes of  horticulture  but I'm not sure 'Petunioides' would be valid - I'll have to check the International Convention. (Actually, I quite like the pre-Linnaean system. It can be rather poetic!)