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Author Topic: Winter Narcissus - to early 2012  (Read 60642 times)

ronm

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Re: Winter Narcissus - to early 2012
« Reply #240 on: February 27, 2012, 08:56:51 PM »
Thanks Michael. Do they go straight back out after flowering? They seem to thrive on your regime. :)

Michael J Campbell

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Re: Winter Narcissus - to early 2012
« Reply #241 on: February 27, 2012, 08:59:51 PM »
Yes, straight back to the frame after flowering.

ronm

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Re: Winter Narcissus - to early 2012
« Reply #242 on: February 27, 2012, 09:05:33 PM »
Thank you, Michael.  :)

art600

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Re: Winter Narcissus - to early 2012
« Reply #243 on: February 27, 2012, 10:24:58 PM »
My plants spent a long time outdoors - not even in a frame - and were brought into a frost free greenhouse when the snow was forecast.

They will remain there until they finish flowering when they will go outside.
Arthur Nicholls

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johnw

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Re: Winter Narcissus - to early 2012
« Reply #244 on: February 27, 2012, 10:41:51 PM »
Here are my cyclamineus just starting to flower

Ian  - Are your cyclamineus in a fair bit of shade?

johnw
John in coastal Nova Scotia

ian mcenery

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Re: Winter Narcissus - to early 2012
« Reply #245 on: February 27, 2012, 11:44:45 PM »
Here are my cyclamineus just starting to flower

Ian  - Are your cyclamineus in a fair bit of shade?

johnw

No John  they have spread in little patches in shady and  sunny parts of the garden. I know this plant can be difficult for some but locally I know a number of growers that find this not too difficult and I think an open light but humus rich slightly acidic soil  which doesn't dry out is what is needed. As a matter of interest  these are the residue from 10 dry bulbs I bought many years ago for about 20p -ah those were the days!!
« Last Edit: February 28, 2012, 08:24:12 AM by ian mcenery »
Ian McEnery Sutton Coldfield  West Midlands 600ft above sea level

Gerry Webster

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Re: Winter Narcissus - to early 2012
« Reply #246 on: February 28, 2012, 10:07:00 AM »
Narcissus cyclamineus

This is one of the most rewarding narcissus I grow. It increases slowly but steadily, flowers regularly & the flowers are quite long lasting.

Gerry passed away  at home  on 25th February 2021 - his posts are  left  in the  forum in memory of him.
His was a long life - lived well.

ronm

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Re: Winter Narcissus - to early 2012
« Reply #247 on: February 28, 2012, 11:14:15 AM »
Stunning Gerry!  :o 8) 8)

Rafa

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Re: Winter Narcissus - to early 2012
« Reply #248 on: February 28, 2012, 12:44:09 PM »
Really nice plants Gerry,

This is Narcissus x montielanus, the direccion in this particular nothovariety is  N. blancoi x N. triandrus subsp. pallidulus, is uniflower and no scented. The other nothovariety is Narcissus triandrus subsp. pallidulus x Narcissus blancoi and it is multiflower and scented.

Also a picture of N. blancoi. Some authors, think it is in fact N. hedraeanthus, or N. hedraeanthus subsp. luteolenta, but I support N. blancoi.

Gerry Webster

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Re: Winter Narcissus - to early 2012
« Reply #249 on: February 28, 2012, 02:22:58 PM »
Rafa - I'm more familiar with the name N. hedraeanthus subsp. luteolentus. Why do you support
N. blancoi? Kew regard this as a synonym for N. albicans (Haw.) Spreng. Whatever the name, it's an attractive little plant.
Gerry passed away  at home  on 25th February 2021 - his posts are  left  in the  forum in memory of him.
His was a long life - lived well.

Rafa

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Re: Winter Narcissus - to early 2012
« Reply #250 on: February 28, 2012, 06:15:50 PM »
Gerry, in my opinion Narcissus albicans and Narcissus blancoi are only similar in one thing: they have a recent hybrid origin. Sorry about this and with due respect to KEW but it is wrong,  Narcissus albicans and Narcissus blancoi are not the same species. Maybe they analyze a herbarium sheet wrongly identified by his collector... I will explain my self better ins some hours.

ArnoldT

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Re: Winter Narcissus - to early 2012
« Reply #251 on: February 28, 2012, 06:24:33 PM »
Flowers often 2 per stem; petals reflexed, sulfur colored. This daffodil is a N. x taitii selection, formerly N. x johnstonii; Selection was made by Peter Barr (1888) from wild-collected material from Spain. Name cannot be applied with certainty to any one of several clones of N. x taitii (formerly known as N. x johnstonii)

Narcissus dubius
Arnold Trachtenberg
Leonia, New Jersey

Rafa

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Re: Winter Narcissus - to early 2012
« Reply #252 on: February 29, 2012, 12:06:45 AM »
Well Gerry, here I am,
It is not easy to determine a border between N. hedraeanthus and N. blancoi, as the same way is not easy to determine a border with certain white N. albicans and N. cantabricus.

The current taxonomic tendency is: "hoop petticoat+white= N. cantabricus, something luteolentus will be N. hedraeanthus and yellow+hoop petticoat= N. bulbocodium" L.
I think it is not serious to start any classification with plants that have unknown localities:

Narcissus bulbocodium L. Type locality between Sevilla and Portugal ¿¿?¿??¿? this is like nothing...
Narcissus cantabricus DC. Type locality ¿?¿?¿ Pyrenees?¿?¿ this is directly false

This imprecision have many implications, because I think N. cantabricus contains several species and N. bulbocodium as well. When subsps or species  of N. cantabricus and N. bulbocodium get together they offer different hybrids that becomes fertile and their speciation done different results of Narcissus albicans.  This  might also happen in Morocco, with all the bulbocodiums there, forming  such a complex group.

For the moment I know 4 different Narcissus albicans in the wild, that I freely name as:

1.- form 'cantabricus': very big one, more white than N. cantabricus, grows in most of places not easy to make a distribution map.. It smell like cantabricus.
2.- form 'bulbocodium': it is like a pale N. bulbocodium, smelling like N. cantabricus with narrow and long leaves, smelling like N. bulbocodium. It has a range of colours.
3.- form 'stable': more similar to N. cantabricus, brown tunics, several long leaves per bulb, greenish white, smelling like N. cantabricus.
4.- Isolated form without relation with other species, like f. bulbocodium, but with a stable colour and smelling like N. cantabricus.

At the same time there are several hybrids that have called N. x barrae, N. x neocarpetanus... but I think it is impossible to know those hybrids if we don't know their parents first. I find hybrids in both directions between "N. albicans f. cantabricus" and "N. aff nivalis", between "N. bulbocodium ?¿??" and "N. albicans f. cantabricus", between "N. bulbocodium ¿?¿ and N. cantabricus",  between N. bulbocodium and N. albicans f. bulbocodium etc...

The problem with N. blancoi are quite similar. They are in general bigger plants than N. hedraeanthus, with erect and long leaves. There are isolated localities and other places where I think they are mixed in one case with N. hedraeanthus, making range of plants, impossible to identify, and other places that N. blancoi is mixed with N. cantabricus, where it is more easy to make the differences, due the color pigmentation and scent. N. blancoi hasn't scent.

Lately I am considering there is no implication of N. cantabricus in the hybrid origin of N. blancoi, it would be possible  the species is fact N. albicans f. cantabricus. Recently I research a locality, where they grow together. This could justified the big size of the plants comparing N. hedraeanthus and N. cantabricus.

I have a request to all of you. If you are growing N. hedraeanthus, could you please tell me if it is scented, I don't remember.... Scent are really important as is inherited, the bencenoids and isoprenodis that form the fragrance can help much than many other considerations, I think.

so difficult to explain in my basic English!! :-[ ;D






« Last Edit: February 29, 2012, 12:12:31 AM by Rafa »

Gerry Webster

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Re: Winter Narcissus - to early 2012
« Reply #253 on: February 29, 2012, 10:01:49 AM »
Rafa - your "basic English" is infinitely superior to my basic Spanish & your explanation is just fine. Thank you very much.  We really do need that new monograph!
Gerry passed away  at home  on 25th February 2021 - his posts are  left  in the  forum in memory of him.
His was a long life - lived well.

Rafa

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Re: Winter Narcissus - to early 2012
« Reply #254 on: February 29, 2012, 12:17:33 PM »
Thank you Gerry.

To be sincere, the more I know about Narcissus more difficoult to understand.... The first time I visit the thing that we use to call "natural genetic labs" I returned frightened!! ;D For the moment, I focus my neurones in understand bulbocodium group but there are also similar complex scenarios with big trumpets, autumn Narcissi, jonquillas group, tazetta group... it is mad.
« Last Edit: February 29, 2012, 01:51:56 PM by Rafa »

 


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