Christmas Galanthus challenge....

[art600]

John  - Please straighten me out on the marking difference between Fieldgate Prelude and Fieldgate Superb.  I recall Martin said my FP was mislabelled  - see photo - no vernation visible at the moment on either.   Also a pic of what's grown as Fieldgate Prelude at Covertside. 

johnw

I rather like the one grown at Covertside and even prefer it to the 'real' Fieldgate Prelude.  Very distinctive marking.

[Martin Baxendale]

John, I don't recall a discussion about the mark on your Fieldgate Prelude so I can't be much help. Of course there may have been one but if there was it now eludes me. I think I do recall a discussion about your FP leaves coming up very thin and gracilis-like, which I think I said mine was doing too, perhaps because it was splitting up a lot, which I find FP tends to do.

[Webster008]

Time will tell John.

Thank you Maggi and Paddy,

Brave enough to begin but got it wrong  .

Hi Webster, my first thought was exactly the same as yours in thinking Mrs Thomson for that flower.      But then I looked in my garden and could see that Godfrey Owen is already in flower - but Mrs Thomson is a couple of weeks from flowering.  Glen Chantry, where the photos were taken, is only 25 miles or so (as the crow flies) from here - so I decided that Godfrey Owen was the more likely.

Remember - I don't yet know the answers - so I could be wrong in my guess and it turns out to be Mrs Thomson after all.  

I am pretty certain that I will be wrong on lots of my guesses.  
T

[johnw]

John, I don't recall a discussion about the mark on your Fieldgate Prelude so I can't be much help. Of course there may have been one but if there was it now eludes me. I think I do recall a discussion about your FP leaves coming up very thin and gracilis-like, which I think I said mine was doing too, perhaps because it was splitting up a lot, which I find FP tends to do.

Good memory Martin. Having looked at my notes I see "leaves are not elwesii 1/1/11 but Martin Baxendale says name is correct 3/1/11".

Now the question is: Is Fieldgate Prelude indeed an elwesii?  JohnF's leaves look a bit closer to what I'd expect of an elwesii.

johnw

[johnw]

I rather like the one grown at Covertside and even prefer it to the 'real' Fieldgate Prelude.  Very distinctive marking.

I have to agree Art. You will also notice a few strays in that clump, ones with two apical markings.

johnw       - +2c and heavy rain expected momentarily.

[ichristie]

Hi all, we have reached the last day of 2011 so All the Very best to you all. Our snowdrops got a shock today as the snow started yesterday at lunchtime and we awoke to 4 inches of white stuff this morning it has started to melt so live in hope, two pics taken today, cheers Ian the Christie kind

[KentGardener]

Brrrrr! 

it was a lot nicer in Kent today.   

[angie]

Ian, I do like seeing the snowdrops just popping their heads through the snow, s o nice can't wait to see mine start showing.
Wish we had some snow here. I do like it this time of year, only a little off course.

Angie

[Martin Baxendale]

John, I don't recall a discussion about the mark on your Fieldgate Prelude so I can't be much help. Of course there may have been one but if there was it now eludes me. I think I do recall a discussion about your FP leaves coming up very thin and gracilis-like, which I think I said mine was doing too, perhaps because it was splitting up a lot, which I find FP tends to do.

Good memory Martin. Having looked at my notes I see "leaves are not elwesii 1/1/11 but Martin Baxendale says name is correct 3/1/11".

Now the question is: Is Fieldgate Prelude indeed an elwesii?  JohnF's leaves look a bit closer to what I'd expect of an elwesii.

johnw

FP is a seedling from Mrs Macnamara, which has quite narrow leaves for an elwesii. The width of leaf in elwesii varies a great deal from very wide to quite thin. Similarly leaf width varies in gracilis, from very thin to quite wide. FP was from open pollinated seed in Colin Mason's garden but looks like pure elwesii.

[johnw]

Thanks for the claification Martin.

johnw

[Martin Baxendale]

Of course you can never rule out the possibility of hybridity. Elwesii crossed with plicatus, I've found, often gives quite narrow-leaved almost nivalis like leaves, as in John Gray.

[Martin Baxendale]

I've crossed John Gray with plicatus and got seedlings (not yet flowered) with very convolute elwesii-like leaves, so I'm now pretty sure John Gray is a plicatus elwesii hybrid, rather than plicatis gracilis as has been suggested in the past.

[Martin Baxendale]

It's all a bit odd, because John Gray is a triploid, and it must have two lots of elwesii chromosomes for the elwesii genes to over-ride the plicatus and produce elwesii type leaves in the seedlings, yet in John Gray the elwesii genes don't express themselves as wide elwesii type leaves. Very puzzling. Unless John Gray is an elwesii x nivalis, which isn't impossible but less likely as those species are less close genetically than elwesii and plicatus. Oh well, it'll probably all become clear with time.

[Hoy]

Wont that be depending on dominance/recessivity regardless of chromosome number?
And to get good pollen or egg cells from a triploid  you can't have had the meiosis properly?

[Martin Baxendale]

Wont that be depending on dominance/recessivity regardless of chromosome number?
And to get good pollen or egg cells from a triploid  you can't have had the meiosis properly?

Could be non-reduced gametes which haven't gone through meiosis (rare but can happen with triploids) or gametes which have gone through meiosis and produced pollen grains which are not completely balanced and complete but enough to be fertile. Dominant and recessive genetics etc is something that is not very well understood yet in galanthus, so all a bit of a puzzle, especially when polyploidy is also thrown into the mix (quite a few of the best galanthus cultivars are hybrid triploids, which makes breeding and planning breeding difficult). But onwards and upwards