Pleione 2012

[LarsB]

It is a bit overcrowded, even though i have weeded a little during dormacy to avoid too much overcrowding. Fuego and a lot of other Pleione hybrids and species are doing very well mounted. And they do't take up space on the table. 

[Maren]

Hi Karel,

thank you for your comment about the P. scopulorum. I got it from Paul Cumbleton and therefore I am quite certain that it is what it says on the label. Each pseudobulb has two leaves and some bulbs have two flowers. My camera does not catch the colour very well, it is much more pink than in the picture. Here is another one that's a bit closer to what they actually look like.

[karel_t]

Hi Maren,
Thanks for the new photo, however if you will look at thouse several links you have to see, the shape of the lip is really different. So I think, your plant could be a hybrid with P. scopulorum as seed parent. May be Paul will say more details.
My P. scopulorum: http://pleione.cz/popisy/scopulorum.html or http://pleione.cz/popisy/obrazky/Pln.-scopulorum_01.jpg
Paul's P. scopulorum: http://www.pleione.info/Gallery%20frames%20page.htm
Albiflora nursery P. scopulorum: http://albiflora.be/plantdetail.php?id=229 or http://albiflora.be/plantdetail.php?id=228
K.

[Maren]

Hi Karel,
this is interesting. I am still convinced it is P. scopulorum (until Paul says otherwise), especially having looked at the description in "The Genus Pleione" by Phillip Cribb and Ian Butterfield, where the lip is described thus: "...consisting of 7 high lacerate lamellae."

[karel_t]

Yes Maren, however the same sentence says: Lip ... is wider than long, 18-30 mm long, 25-36 mm wide ...
Here I add the scan from the book.
K.

.... Paul, where are you!

[Maren]

Hi Karel,  I'll take the plant to Ian Butterfield next week and ask his opinion. Paul may be away on holiday. We'll get there eventually.

[Slug Killer]

Hi Maren/Karel

Another picture which has just been sent to me of Pleione scopulorum acquired from PaulC. Who knows how variable it might be in the wild? That it doesn’t look typical does not mean it is not it. The lip does look very frilly and much paler than what I've seen before. The other image is the clone of scopulorum I had which all died and is the more typical form seen in cultivation.

[Maren]

Curioser and curioser. I took a picture of the last flowers to open on mine.

[karel_t]

Hi David and Maren, that is really confused.
I add my Mawenzi and my true scopulorum (originated from Ian's stock).
You can see, that Mawenzi looks much more like Paul's scopulorum. So I'm still convinced that it is a hybrid.
K.

[Slug Killer]

Hi Karel

Not had Mawenzi myself so I can't compare in the flesh so to speak but looking at the photo's it certainly looks more like that hybrid than the 'usual' clones of scopulorum we see.

Have to wait for Paul to reply.

I will have about eight flowering scopulorum from Paul hopefully open very soon to compare with but I'm going away next Sunday and therefore may miss them altogether.

[Paul Cumbleton]

Hi Everyone,
Maren I believe the scopulorum you got from me is a true one, not a hybrid. While I sold mixed clones, I can tell from your picture that yours is one that I originally received as seedlings out of flask from a source in Germany. Given this source, I obviously cannot guarantee the plants are pure but I see nothing to lead me to believe otherwise. Pleione scopulorum is quite variable across its wide range. When we read a botanical description it is usually of a "type" specimen that may be a description of a single plant or of a population from a single location. This really tells us little of how much variation a species may show which takes a great deal more fieldwork to see plants from across the range. (For example look at the astonishing range of forms of P. pleionoides that have come to light over recent years).

P. socpulorum can vary in flower colour from pure white through pinks to dark rose and even the beautiful yellow form. The leaves can be very tall or quite short in length. They are usually two in number but can be one (including in the wild)- or variable i.e. the same bulb may produce one leaf in some years and two in others. The psudobulbs have a characteristic shape but can vary a lot in size and they may be from bright green to dark purple in colour. The waters are muddied further of course by the Pleione that was described as Pleione kaatiae. Philip Cribb regards this also as just a variant of P. scopulorum and not worthy of being a new species. If his view is correct, this further extends the range of variation that P. scopulorum shows.

While the flowering time is earlier than usual, this has been an odd year indeed due to the topsy turvy weather - my flowering period has already peaked and is now in decline, about a full month earlier than usual. My scopulorum have not flowered yet but are in advanced bud, again about a month earlier than I would expect normally.

So I'm sure your plant falls within the range of variation that would be considered normal for this species. If it is a hybrid, the with what? - I can't really see any sign of another species in it and if it were a cross with a hybrid I would expect to see more deviation from the scopulorum characters. So my best view is that it is indeed a scopulorum. Does anyone else have a view?

Cheers

Paul

[Maren]

Yes Paul, I agree with you.

[Luc Gilgemyn]

1 - 2 A yellow clone of Pleione leda in flower today.

3 - 4  Pleione whakari



5) Pleione Ueli Wackernagel in full swing ! 

[Maren]

Hi Luc, lovely pot full of Ueli Wackernagel. Congratulations

[karel_t]

... So I'm sure your plant falls within the range of variation that would be considered normal for this species. If it is a hybrid, the with what? - I can't really see any sign of another species in it and if it were a cross with a hybrid I would expect to see more deviation from the scopulorum characters.

OK Paul a small quiz,
Here is David's P. scopulorum and your Mawenzi (yunnanensis x scopulorum) from your own websites. Could you show me any difference?

Sorry,but you haven't convinced me. 

Karel