Galanthus January 2012

[johnw]

Despite a few very cold days in January with no snow cover reginae-olgae Cambridge bravely soldiers along here outdoors.

First in line after the reginae-olgaes indoors is Bess followed a few days later by Ding Dong.

johnw

[chasw]

Jennie,if you pm me

Also pleased to see David Baker up and flowering today,rather dissapointed with pictures taken today so will try again tomorrow

Steve some lovely drops there  

[JohnLonsdale]

What shall I do, Steve? To put out the healthy heart, yes???

Hagen
Without being over-detailed, I would
b) put the remaining (smaller!) bulb in a container and cover it with a strong mixture of disinfectant and fungicide (I don't think the exact choice of chemicals is crucial, we just need to show the micro-organisms who is boss)

I'm a bit bemused by the suggestion that the exact choice of chemicals isn't crucial. 

When I have an infection caused by a specific bacterium or fungus, I expect to be prescribed an antibiotic that covers that organism.  If not it will rapidly become apparent that the microorganism is boss because I'll be dead.  Additionally, you've possibly also contributed to resistance generation in a bunch of other potential pathogens lurking around the place that aren't causing the immediate problem.  While the disinfectant might surface sterilize your bulb remains, depending on what it is, and the concentration, it will quite possibly do a lot of other things as well, some of which will not be desirable.  The exact choice of chemicals and their use is crucial.

Best,

John

[steve owen]

Well, since

a) most of us are not microbiologists or botanists trained to identify plant diseases with unerring accuracy, and
b) there is no scientific guide as to which antidote chemicals treat which diseases even if we could diagnose the causative problem, and
c) no plant treatment manufacturer is going to be daft enough to certify that his product is THE antidote to disease a, b, or c

- it seems to me that the logic of this is that no one attempts to use any sort of chemicals whatsoever.

If alternatively you do have a guaranteed antidote to stagonospora, don't be shy - enlighten us.

[JohnLonsdale]

Well, since

a) most of us are not microbiologists or botanists trained to identify plant diseases with unerring accuracy, and
b) there is no scientific guide as to which antidote chemicals treat which diseases even if we could diagnose the causative problem, and
c) no plant treatment manufacturer is going to be daft enough to certify that his product is THE antidote to disease a, b, or c

- it seems to me that the logic of this is that no one attempts to use any sort of chemicals whatsoever.

If alternatively you do have a guaranteed antidote to stagonospora, don't be shy - enlighten us.

b) there is no scientific guide as to which antidote chemicals treat which diseases even if we could diagnose the causative problem.  Just read the manufacturers labels - they tell you what they treat.  They are all available via the internet. 

c). no plant treatment manufacturer is going to be daft enough to certify that his product is THE antidote to disease a, b, or c.  Sure they do.  The labels don't all say things like 'kills stuff'.  They are very specific.

The right disinfectant at the right concentration with the right exposure time will surface sterilize the bulb without doing much damage.  Soaking in a systemic broad spectrum fungicide (separately from the disinfectant obviously) will help without doing much harm.  Following up with repeated foliage spraying with broad spectrum fungicides will be essential to prevent re-infection.  If you have something close to a very dense monoculture then likely the disease will be with you forever.  Close and permanent attention to prophylactic and symptomatic treatments as well as excellent hygiene might minimize the damage.

[kentish_lass]

Thanks so much Chas.

Last year I had various problems including stag.  I stripped the bulbs right down to a central core almost and soaked them in fungicide - they looked like spring onions.  I planted them in isolation and noticed today that they are coming up.  I also had a Diggory bulb which had rotted in very wet heavy soil.  I cleaned it up and potted in 50/50 sand and John Innes but during the summer decided to plant it as it was getting so dry in the pot.  I noticed today that is coming up too!

So Hagen - it can work and I do hope you manage to save your bulb - it is beautiful (not wanting to add to your stress) !

Many of my kind gifts from forum members are also breaking through the ground to my relief.  Happy Days  

[Alan_b]

.... Soaking in a systemic broad spectrum fungicide....

Such as?  Maybe such things are still available to the professional in agriculture or horticulture but I don't think there is any such thing for the rest of us.     

[JohnLonsdale]

.... Soaking in a systemic broad spectrum fungicide....

Such as?  Maybe such things are still available to the professional in agriculture or horticulture but I don't think there is any such thing for the rest of us.     

I have no idea what is available in the UK.  In the USA, for example see:

http://issuu.com/griffins/docs/209-2241?mode=embed&layout=http%3A%2F%2Fskin.issuu.com%2Fv%2Flight%2Flayout.xml&showFlipBtn=true and

http://issuu.com/griffins/docs/225-2401?mode=embed&layout=http%3A%2F%2Fskin.issuu.com%2Fv%2Flight%2Flayout.xml&showFlipBtn=true

Unless specified, an applicators permit/license is not required for purchase.

I've used the Cleary's and Daconil to good effect for several fungal indications.

[Anthony Darby]

I think "broad spectrum" is perhaps another name for "stuff"? I certainly isn't specific!

[johnw]

There's nothing left in the way of fungicides for the homeowner here - sulphur, bordeaux and Bacillus subtilis strain QST 713.  We are left with precious few for vegetables and fruit but are not supposed to use them on ornamentals.  Of course golf courses can use whatever has a registration certificate. 

Does anyone know of a Stag-specific fungicide or a Botrytis galanthina fungicide, i.e. one that specifically mentions either on the label?  I can only presume that Rovral might be useful for the latter as it is so effective for other kinds of Botrytisif not applied more than once per year, timing must be right on.

johnw

[KentGardener]

Nice to see the pics of these rarities Steve.  Is 'Louise Ann Bromley' as large as I have heard?

Franz Josef is a beauty.

[Alan_b]

I have no idea what is available in the UK..... I've used the Cleary's and Daconil to good effect for several fungal indications.

Daconil would seem to be available only to professionals charged with grass/lawn care http://www.scottsprofessional.co.uk/files/B0KKqFPz3o.pdf

I cannot find any indication that Cleary's fungicide is available in the UK (at least not under that name).

I presume what goes for the UK applies equally to the rest of the EU.

[Tim Ingram]

Stefan Buczacki and Keith Harris in the Collins Guide to the Pests, Diseases and Disorders of Garden Plants, talk of soaking bulbs (presumably narcissus) in 0.05% formalin before planting to combat Stagonospora curtisii. Since narcissus are so widely grown commercially there must be fungicidal treatments for them, but these days they are much less likely to be available to amateur growers (rather like captan and benlate which many nurserymen have found valuable in the past). In Nature plant and pest will always be in a dynamic balance and the best way of minimising disease is in the natural selection of vigorous varieties which occurs in the garden from seed. All the wonderful varieties grown by gardeners must be potentially much more susceptible and the answer must be in distributing bulbs to friends and, if room, spreading them widely around the garden. Touch wood Stagonospora has not been such a problem for me so far but I do lose a lot of bulbs from swift moth caterpillars. I sort of live with it until I think how much they cost me!!

[Alan_b]

Don't talk to me about swift moth caterpillars!  But I cannot help thinking that some of the mass-production techniques that must be applied to small narcissus bulbs like 'Tete-a-tete' could be equally applicable to snowdrops.  These techniques must surely include disease control measures.

[steve owen]

Nice to see the pics of these rarities Steve.  Is 'Louise Ann Bromley' as large as I have heard?

Franz Josef is a beauty.

John,
Yes, quite a big flower head. FJ is very nice but Esther Merton is still my belle of the ball.
Steve