Crocus February 2012

[Rob Potterton]

Further to the correct reply by Janis, Crocus 'Sunspot' will set seed but at best only 50% are true. You must grow seedlings for 4 to 6 years to flower size and then throw away the bulbs that are not true. But if you are growing the plants on a window sill you should also remember to pollinate the flowers.

[ronm]

Thanks Rob. I moved it onto the widowsill because it was the only area of the whole garden getting any light at the time of flowering. I hoped to get the flowers open and get the pollen ripe. Which I think I have. It will go back with the other crocus for the rest of the year. Fingers crossed but not holding my breath. Obviously any seedlings no matter how 'true' can't be called Sunspot.

[daveyp1970]

Thanks Rob. I moved it onto the widowsill because it was the only area of the whole garden getting any light at the time of flowering. I hoped to get the flowers open and get the pollen ripe. Which I think I have. It will go back with the other crocus for the rest of the year. Fingers crossed but not holding my breath. Obviously any seedlings no matter how 'true' can't be called Sunspot.

Ron we have had this discussion on another plant and from what i gained from that was as long as the seedling has all the characteristics as the plant that is registered then it can be named the same.I might be wrong and i hope some one with a bit better understanding of this matter can clear it up.

[art600]

Ron
You may have 18 cats and all ginger, I have one ginger and she is nearing 18, and given the chance would still catch mice.

[ronm]

Thanks Davey. These sort of questions probably go around and around over the years, but us 'newbies' appreciate that someone answers rather than sits there thinking ' ohhh we answered that two years ago'. So Cheers!! to you. My understanding was always that it had to be a vegetative reproduction to carry forth the name. If we say Sunspot has a rate of 50% with visibly same characteristics, what happens when one of those 'same offspring' has only a 5% rate? Minefield!

[ronm]

A Queen to be proud of then Art. She's out in all weathers protecting your bulbs?

[Maggi Young]

Thanks Davey. These sort of questions probably go around and around over the years, but us 'newbies' appreciate that someone answers rather than sits there thinking ' ohhh we answered that two years ago'. So Cheers!! to you. My understanding was always that it had to be a vegetative reproduction to carry forth the name. If we say Sunspot has a rate of 50% with visibly same characteristics, what happens when one of those 'same offspring' has only a 5% rate? Minefield!

 This naming business is a minefield!
This may help......  http://www.ishs.org/sci/icracpco.htm better link : http://www.actahort.org/chronica/pdf/sh_10.pdf  (Thanks, Gerry!)

 A previous post on the matter ( about other plants) said this :

Naming cultivars is subject to rules just as naming species is. The International Code of Nomenclature for Cultivated Plants is the guideline for that: http://www.ishs.org/sci/icracpco.htm

The ICNCP is basically an extension of the International Code of Botanical Nomenclature (ICBN)

Unfortunately it is not online, like the ICBN is, and needs to be purchased. Generally speaking new cultivars either are registered at a specific registration body or published in a printed form (like a nursery catalogue) for them to become official. Naming cultivars has more freedom than species because the names don't have to be in Latin of latinized. Unfortunately in some genera growers mis-use cultivars to become immortal resulting in a multitude of similar looking plants with different names which then are discussed on fora because no one can make heads of tail of them.....  

The most important paragraph in the ICNCP is paragraph 2.3 defining what a cultivar is:

A cultivar is an assemblage of plants that (a) has been selected for a
particular character or combination of characters, (b) is distinct, uniform, and stable
in these characters, and (c) when propagated by appropriate means, retains those
characters

A a result of this definition the best way to ensure the "purity" of a cultivar is to propagate it vegetatively but it doesn't have to as long as the offspring retains the characters that defined the cultivar. The more clearly defined the characters are that make up the cultivar, the easier it is to recognise in the course of time and doesn't get "muddled" with plants that "sort of look like" the original cultivar.

[ronm]

Thanks Maggi, it probably will!

[alpinelover]

Frankie,
I find it quite interesting und unusual that cultivar 'Goldilocks' opened its flowers or kept its flowers open in spite of snow and low temperatures.

Yes, it's a bit strange, but it's no trick. But the flowers did have the whole day the sun.

[ronm]

I have seen similar things over the years. Can it be that the flower is mature but hasnt opened for so long ( due to unfavourable conditions ) that just before it becomes 'over ripe' it opens 'come what may'? I find Crocus flowers that do this dont last anywhere near as long as those that open fresh. Only a theory .... nothing scientific!

[Gerry Webster]

Thanks Rob. I moved it onto the widowsill because it was the only area of the whole garden getting any light at the time of flowering. I hoped to get the flowers open and get the pollen ripe. Which I think I have. It will go back with the other crocus for the rest of the year. Fingers crossed but not holding my breath. Obviously any seedlings no matter how 'true' can't be called Sunspot.

Ron we have had this discussion on another plant and from what i gained from that was as long as the seedling has all the characteristics as the plant that is registered then it can be named the same.I might be wrong and i hope some one with a bit better understanding of this matter can clear it up.

Davey - you are right.

The International Code can be found here:

ISHS - ICNCP - Scripta Horticulturae 10
www.actahort.org/chronica/pdf/sh_10.pdf

[ronm]

The complete Tim Minchin song ' Predujice' is well worth digging out on Google. A poignant wake up for so many forums.

[Armin]

Yes, it's a bit strange, but it's no trick. But the flowers did have the whole day the sun.

That explains it. Warmth triggers the opening of the flowers.

[Armin]

I have seen similar things over the years. Can it be that the flower is mature but hasnt opened for so long ( due to unfavourable conditions ) that just before it becomes 'over ripe' it opens 'come what may'? I find Crocus flowers that do this dont last anywhere near as long as those that open fresh. Only a theory .... nothing scientific!

Ron,
you might be right with your theory provided there is enough warmth to force opening.
Currently all early crocus flower shots in my meadow are deep frozen (-10°C) and will flop without opening if the cold continues.

[fermi de Sousa]

Nice song Fermi
never heard from Tim Minchin before
Roland

The complete Tim Minchin song ' Predujice' is well worth digging out on Google. A poignant wake up for so many forums.

Tim is Australian and has been a favourite of mine for a long time - I really appreciate his understanding of a lot of things we take for granted. Being from Western Australia he probably doesn't have much of an interest in crocus so it's a bit "off topic"!
cheers
fermi