Fritillaria 2012

[Lesley Cox]

I was asked a question recently about F. ojaiensis and its origins. I can't say much except that it came to me from the FGAGS, the donor listed as Jane McGary. I assume - perhaps wrongly that this IS F. ojaiensis? Somewhere I read that it was related to F. affinis and so close to it that it wasn't worth separating, or even growing. But I think it is delightlful.

[Gerry Webster]

Lesley - David King (in Bulbs of North America) describes it as "outstanding" & states that, although once regarded as a variant of F. affinis, it is regarded as a distinct species in the Jepson Manual.

[ronm]

Lesley, thanks very much for posting this picture. A beautiful thing.

Reading genetic relationship reports ( such as those available on Fritillaria Icones ), shows F.ojaiensis to be more closely related to F.pinetorum, F. falcata, etc. Quite a stretch from F.affinis ( of either type!! ). The physical appearance of your flowers are much closer to the former, and really bear very little relationship to the latter, ... dont you think?

I would say you have a rare and wonderful thing there.

[Lesley Cox]

I had an email from Jane today and she confirms she did send seed to FGAGS at one stage. Also mentions the relationship with falcata and pinetorum. I feel priviliged to have this little gem.

[ronm]

Does anyone know of any records for F. camschatcensis from the Aleutian Islands? As these could be said to 'link' Kamchatka in Russian Far East, and Alaska, it would be interesting to know if this species occurs on this island chain.

[Maggi Young]

Yes, Ron, I believe the frit is recorded from the Aleutians - see here for one example :
http://arctic.synergiesprairies.ca/arctic/index.php/arctic/article/download/2161/2138

[Gerry Webster]

Captain Cook recorded F. camschatcensis  from the island of Unalaska - one of the Aleutians -  in October 1778 on his third voyage. It was also  noted by Captain Clerke & Lieutenant King in their own journals of the voyage (a plant "called by the Russians Saranne").

Sarana is celebrated by a couple of place names in the Aleutians: Sarana Island & Sarana Bay.

[ronm]

Thank you Maggi and Gerry.
Each of these references, no matter how seemingly insignificant, help to build a picture. With such a distinctive sp. (?) its highly unlikely that there is any confusion.
If anyone else has knowledge of more references I would greatly appreciate these ( perhaps by PM to save thread space,  ).

[Lesley Cox]

I didn't know one of the Aleutian Islands was called Unalaska, so presumably that's where Romanzoffia unalaskensis comes from. I sometimes wondered why the "un" in front of alaskensis for this unassuming but charming little plant.

[Lesley Cox]

At the Fritillaria Group meeting meeting yesterday Bob Wallis gave a short talk titled "New mysteries and New Discoveries". The aim was to update the group on plants that the Wallis' had observed / collected, that still had not had their species firmly pinned down. First to be addressed was the plant often shown and distributed by them as aff. bithynica. Bob showed this is the one with the differing bracts, the smooth seed capsule etc. Bob confirmed through a very detailed set of pictures and explanations that this plant is in fact F.milasense.
Mystery solved. /]

Oh dear, our MAF will be upset or rather what used to be ERMA but is now EPA I think, as in Environmental protection Agency. We will have to persuade them that F. milasense is here and well established in NZ. IN fact, I've had the apparently unwinged capsule form of bithynica for a number of years, never had one yet, with a winged capsule. Some have plain green flowers some with pink edges to petals, all delightful.

Sorry, can't separate the quote from the post.

[daveyp1970]

At the Fritillaria Group meeting meeting yesterday Bob Wallis gave a short talk titled "New mysteries and New Discoveries". The aim was to update the group on plants that the Wallis' had observed / collected, that still had not had their species firmly pinned down. First to be addressed was the plant often shown and distributed by them as aff. bithynica. Bob showed this is the one with the differing bracts, the smooth seed capsule etc. Bob confirmed through a very detailed set of pictures and explanations that this plant is in fact F.milasense.
Mystery solved. /]

Oh dear, our MAF will be upset or rather what used to be ERMA but is now EPA I think, as in Environmental protection Agency. We will have to persuade them that F. milasense is here and well established in NZ. IN fact, I've had the apparently unwinged capsule form of bithynica for a number of years, never had one yet, with a winged capsule. Some have plain green flowers some with pink edges to petals, all delightful.

Sorry, can't separate the quote from the post.

Lesley how does this work for you now,i was at the said Bobs talk(which was fantastic),will somebody have to apply for it to go on the permitted list again as a new sp or will it be excepted because its been in cultivation there for a while.I should think this was always going to be a headache with a genus that is still being understood with new data.

[David Stephens]

I was asked a question recently about F. ojaiensis and its origins. I can't say much except that it came to me from the FGAGS, the donor listed as Jane McGary. I assume - perhaps wrongly that this IS F. ojaiensis? Somewhere I read that it was related to F. affinis and so close to it that it wasn't worth separating, or even growing. But I think it is delightlful.

Lesley
When in doubt turn to the Archibald archive.

Seedlist master list.

1.371.350 : FRITILLARIA OJAIENSIS Cal., Ventura Co., NNW of Ojai, Wheeler Springs. 553m.
J. Andrews coll. (Untried in cultivation before this coll. - growing on well with us now) Disjunct southern member of the F. affinis group with 50cm. stems of widely bell-shaped flowers in dull greenish yellow with sparse to profuse dark dots. The broad, diamond-shaped nectary is diagnostic.

[Lesley Cox]

Thankyou David. That sounds good and definitive. I have a lot of Archibald catalogues here but there was a period of maybe 10 years when I literally didn't have a cent to spare so didn't get their lists and missed out on not only seeds but much information as well.

Davey, what we will have to do probably is site the Wallis material as a botanical reference for EPA and with that, the new name should be added to the Biosecurity Index. We may have to submit plants as well, depends who's doing the adding. Going by what Bob Wallis is about to publish, all the bithynica material I have, is, in fact, milasense.

[ronm]

We can only say with any certainty that the plant shown by Marcus is ( according to the people who collected it ) F.milasense. This is because it came from the Wallis' as their aff. bithynica, from the named location etc. etc. So we have a provenance for Marcus' plant. Unless Lesleys plants came from exactly the same source they may not be related to this at all. Various forms of F.carica ( capsule not winged  ) were doing the rounds and seedlists as F.bithynica for years, ( I grow a lot of them ). F.mughlae, forbesii, sibthorpiana, pinardii etc., are all very variable plants ( all capsule not winged ), seed being passed around, which may fit the bill.
I wouldn't be changing labels yet Lesley ( to F.milasense )unless your plants came from R&R. Your plants can't be F.bithynica though, as they have a capsule without wings.

Of coarse we could all wait for the Kew Monograph on Fritillaria to be published in 2014 ( start saving your pocket money  ), and then make up our own minds.

[Gerry Webster]

Rix's monograph has been "eagerly anticipated" for more years than I care to remember.