Fritillaria 2012

[ronm]

Thank you Maggi, a fascinating observation indeed.

Does this means that Clays posts of variation are lost forever?

I have been 'trawling' through as much of the published and internet material as I can get hold of, and still these pages seem to hold those 'gems' of information that are never seen elsewhere. So much of the printed / published stuff is just a total regurgitation of what was published previously by someone else! Not here.

[Maggi Young]

Does this means that Clays posts of variation are lost forever?

Regrettably that is so Ron, and all the thousands of other great information there along with that. A real tragedy. Everything was done that could  be done to effect a rescue, but to no avail.  I cannot claim to understand the reasons, all I know is the degree of loss. 

[Maggi Young]

A paper that may shed some light on the Japanese plants - but I don't have the full paper :

Phenetic diversity in the Fritillaria camschatcensis population grown on the Sapporo campus of Hokkaido University

Authors: Yamagishi, Masumi1; Nishioka, Miki2; Kondo, Testuya3

Source: Landscape and Ecological Engineering, Volume 6, Number 1, January 2010 , pp. 75-79(5)

Abstract:
" Triploid Fritillaria camschatcensis (L.) Ker-Gawler (2n = 3x = 36) is a wild species growing in the low-lying areas of Hokkaido Island, Japan, including the Sapporo campus of Hokkaido University. Many F. camschatcensis plants grew on the campus about a century ago, but we seldom find the plants nowadays and so a project to restore this species is being planned. Because preservation of genetic diversity and composition in populations has become a major target of conservation, this study compared variation in the F. camschatcensis population on the Sapporo campus with that in two other populations in Hokkaido. Phenetic variation assessed by 57 randomly amplified polymorphic DNA markers showed that the three populations were significantly distinct from each other; analysis of molecular variance showed 64.3% of variation (P < 0.001) existed among the three populations. Comparison of phenetic diversity on the Sapporo campus population with that in the two other populations showed that the Sapporo campus population contained large genetic variation despite reduced plant numbers. These results indicate that multiplying F. camschatcensis individuals on the Sapporo campus is adequate to restore the Sapporo campus population because this population contains enough genetic diversity, and that transplanting from other populations should be avoided so as not to introduce different genotypes into the campus. These results will be used to design the restoration strategy. "

[ronm]

Thanks Maggi, I have the full article. if anyone one is really interested, this is the best examination I've found thus far. It does go off into genetics somewhat, but the obvious difference between the 'alpine' F.camschatcensis and the lowland ones is intriguing.

http://eprints2008.lib.hokudai.ac.jp/dspace/bitstream/2115/26240/1/3(5)_P219-232.pdf

[Maggi Young]

Thanks for the link to the full article, Ron.

Do you know this paper on the incidence of male flowers in liliaceae? It may have a bearing also ....
http://www.herbmedit.org/bocconea/24-301.pdf

[ronm]

Thanks Maggi. It was in my box of stuff still to wade through 

A number of studies of this kind are around and are fascinating. When we look at F.camscatcensis, F.dagana and F. maximowiczii ( the stoloniferous members of the subgenus Liliorhiza )it seems seed set is quite rare, but veg. reproduction is 'the norm' leading to swift colonisation and insertion into newly available habitat. Maybe 'seperate sex' flowers has something to do with this. More swotting needed!

[ronm]

While the references to F.camschatcensis are limited in this paper, I thought it might be of interest to many forum members. A wide variety of flora and fauna are discussed and some unusual relationships uncovered. Maybe should have been on a different thread, but Frits do get a mention!

http://russia.wetlands.org/Portals/5/WetlandsinRussia_Vol_4_English.pdf

[Lesley Cox]

Most sincere apologies Lesley, but I really would like to follow up on this here. 

Sorry Ron, I was kidding you. After the debacle of some days ago I was saying we don't want to go down that road again. I'm all for reasonable and reasoned discussion every time and if that means F camschatcensis, why not? I take it, it is the apparently great variation available within that species you wish to explore? I probably can't contribute much as I said, all of my flowering plants are green/black and as yet I have none of the redder shades. However, soon after the late Alistair Blee of Edendale died, some of his seed of camschatcensis was offered in the seedlist of (the then) FGNZ and I ordered some, simply as a small memorial to Alistair whom I'd known for about 40 years I suppose. He had had over time, some fantastic plants and some of these are in the great rock-gardening world here now, fortunately. I know he had deep red/black F. cam... so I'm hopeful that when these flower perhaps in a couple of years, they may be of the redder colour.

The one in your link is very different from any I've seen and I think is very desirable too.

[ronm]

I hope that I can get you, and anyone else who wants to try, some seed of these lovely Japanese ones one day soon Lesley. 

In the meantime this popped into my inbox today. I thought it interesting enough to share.

http://www.tibettour.com/tibet-travel-information/tibetan-medicine-fritillaria.html

[Lesley Cox]

Thank you Ron, that would be lovely. Those chequered forms are beautiful. Oh dear, I knew the Tibetans and Chinese use frits medicinally, several desirable species such as pallidiflora, yuminensis et al but to see a bowlful like like makes me want to cry. No wonder some plants (and animals) become endangered or extinct quite rapidly.

[Diane Whitehead]

Back when there was a lot of online discussion about Chen Yi's sales of plants and bulbs,
I read that several species of frits were field-grown for medicine in China, and it was assumed
that this was her source of some of her plants. This was more acceptable than the thought
of her ripping them from the wild.

[ronm]

I noticed today that my F. tortifolia have noses appearing. I thought this a little early until I searched and found this on the bulb log -

http://www.srgc.org.uk/bulblog/log2007/271107/log.html

[ronm]

This nice little article popped into my Inbox today. Thought it might be interesting for some, 

http://www.rhs.org.uk/Plants/RHS-Publications/Journals/The-Plantsman/2012-issues/December/Cultivating-Fritillaria-eduardii

[Rick R.]

Speaking of F. eduardii, we were packeting seeds for the NARGS seed ex a few days ago.  One of our members came me and said "look at this!".  It was a large pack of donated F. eduardii seeds.  Compared to most on this forum, I am quite the Fritillaria novice.  I've not seen eduardii seed before, but I have seen and germinated seed of F. raddeana and some of the other large seeded frits, like sewerzowii.   These eduardii seeds seemed a thicker than what I'm used to seeing and what struck me most is their blond appearance - very light tan, like the true seed of Lilium martagon var. album.  Is this normal?

[ronm]

Here you go Rick, pictured here seed of F.eduardii.

http://www.fritillariaicones.com/info/Fritillaria_seeds.pdf