Galanthus naming- digression from Gala 2012 thread

[Maggi Young]

While a person such as Ruby Baker certainly deserves to have a fine flower named for her, it is surely not sensible to muddy the waters of an already rather grubby pond by naming another plant in the same genus?
The "average" gardener has enough trouble telling any snowdrop apart, let alone be able to distinguish between different species.
Add to that the problems when a 'late' drop flowers early , or vice versa, and the level of confusion likely to arise is laughable, or would be, if it were not so ridiculous.

[johnw]

While a person such as Ruby Baker certainly deserves to have a fine flower named for her, it is surely not sensible to muddy the waters of an already rather grubby pond by naming another plant in the same genus?
The "average" gardener has enough trouble telling any snowdrop apart, let alone be able to distinguish between different species.
Add to that the problems when a 'late' drop flowers early , or vice versa, and the level of confusion likely to arise is laughable, or would be, if it were not so ridiculous.

Perhaps Dame Ruby Baker!  You'll have to get onto that Maggi then Joe will have a name.

johnw

[Maggi Young]

I don't think that would work  either......( supposing someone has the power to arrange that particular honour).....think of the confusions that arise with G.P. Baker and  George Baker in the Corydalis naming... such confusions are legion. Cassiope George Taylor/Sir George Taylor..... these are single plants going under differing names. That's bad enough without having to cope with diferent plants under names that  refer to the same person.

[Martin Baxendale]

I wasn't suggesting wholesale multiple-naming within the genus. It's just that the nomenclature rules were obviously drawn up as a very broad-brush approach to cover a great many genera, including many where there are lots of cultivars (often hybrids) normally only identified by genus and cultivar name, and in those circumstances it obviously makes sense not to duplicate cultivar names. All I was thinking was that the problem is likely to be lessened a bit in the case of two galanthus species cultivars which are both visually distinct and pretty much always identified in books and catalogues (and conversation) by genus, species and cultivar name. In any case, the argument is moot since Joe will probably do whatever he decides to do and no-one can actually force him to change his mind. In which case Matt will have to find some way of writing about Joe's reginae-olgae in some way that reflects the nomenclatural situation or leave it out of the book (which would be a bit silly). Not trying to start any rows here, just think it's an interesting discussion to have.

[steve owen]

.........under the nomenclature rules, once a name is formally published, with a description, .....then that name cannot be used again for the same genus .........not a justification for both flouting the nomenclature rules...........Now it will be left to Matt Bishop to sort this out......... he will instead have to insist on another name being chosen - but in the meanwhile snowdrops bearing this invalis name will be circulating.
[/quote]

This all feels a bit heavy. And a touch authoritarian. The power to decree what is or isn't permissible for the whole of the genus Galanthus rests with one person? I mean, COME ON!! It's little white flowers, not membership of the MCC.

[steve owen]

..and after seeing Joe Sharman and other worthies standing about in the perishing cold today to give us a chance to buy our hearts' desires, maybe this is an opportune moment to comment how much we owe not just to BDG but to the Sharmans/Streets/Mackenzies/Morleys/Broadhursts etc of this world who do their stuff in the coldest wettest months to give us a service and a choice. Gentlemen (and some ladies), some of whom I haven't cited above, take a bow.

[johnw]

( supposing someone has the power to arrange that particular honour)

I thought you might arrange that, surely you have Her email address.

Lesson to be learned on possible premature naming, let's hope that not the case in this particular instance and the flower of RB is a super one.

johnw

[Martin Baxendale]

Since the absence of a sales list from Joe Sharman was remarked upon earlier in this thread, I thought I should mention that mine arrived in the post today.  Since "orders received after 7th February will not be accepted" there is a tight deadline should you wish to order something.  

Got my list today and didn't notice the order deadline - didn't even think to look for one, assuming the list would be current for at least a fortnight or so. If I'd known, I'd have got my order in the post today. Now I'll have to mail it first thing Monday and hope it gets there the next day. A bit annoying, especially since the weather may well hold up the mail at the start of the week.

[mark smyth]

8 pages about the Gala has been viewed 3636 times!

[Maggi Young]

8 pages about the Gala has been viewed 3636 times!

Quite! THAT is why it is important that the names are distinct.... even if the blasted flowers are not 

[Martin Baxendale]

636 of those were me. 

[Martin Baxendale]

8 pages about the Gala has been viewed 3636 times!

Quite! THAT is why it is important that the names are distinct.... even if the blasted flowers are not 

Point taken, Maggi 

[Tim Ingram]

It does make you wonder if Galanthus fever is reaching fever pitch! There is a sort of 'Botanical Correctness' and there is 'Gardening' and the two sometimes don't intermesh so happily. I agree with Steve's comments, having done quite a bit of standing out in the cold and rain selling plants, and gardening too. On the other hand I love the Snowdrop Book and the stories that go with the plants. I wonder if you can be a 'semi- galanthophile?' I suspect not because I am already wondering how it is possible to have an improved 'Cicely Hall'!

[steve owen]

Tim

Agreed. If I start to place the enjoyment of plants second to grim pedantry and a gradgrindianhttp://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=definition%20of%20gradgrindian&source=web&cd=3&sqi=2&ved=0CC0QFjAC&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.wordnik.com%2Fwords%2FGradgrindian&ei=PrYtT_PjK6Ou0QXkr62tCA&usg=AFQjCNHHIums3NNH9f8t87vmdH6wSV6Bhw approach you have my permission to take me out and shoot me.

Steve

[steve owen]

whoops! pasting that link bombed! back of class Owen