AGS On Line Show 2011

[Lesley Cox]

Must enter my HUGE dwarf conifer this next time. Cryptomeria japonica 'Tensan,' about 25 years old now.

[ronm]

I have always entered individual plants ( in pots) and think this is not the way for this Show, and will not be doing it again. The nuances of a single / small group of plants cannot be evaluated on a 2d photo, despite some outdated expression of expertise! Therefore I consider this aspect of this initiative redundant and irrelevant.
However, the positive aspect of this 'Show' is, as has been, said,
1. Anyone can show their gardens from around the globe,
2. Growing skill and combinations can be expressed, unlike a traditional one day show,
3.Gardening skills can be shown to the full ( not available in a plant show),
4. Things I haven't thought of yet but am sure are there.
I for one will not be participating again, ......but if some other group were to initiate something similar but with more sympathy to the global aspect and the operating medium, .... well I'd reconsider.
Arrogant? maybe.

[Lesley Cox]

I think near the beginning of the Online Show it was stated that (within reason) the plant quality was to be judged, not the photgraph quality, so a superb specimen of a Dionysia poorly photographed would probably win over basic Prim. vulgaris well photographed. Correct me if I'm wrong here.

I was a bit surprised this time to see some of the judges' comments in the Iris class, always a first look for me. Something about more of the plant should be seen and in a suggestion that an iris was 'White Falls.' It had distinctly coloured falls on my screen anyway.  With so many classes for individual families, Gentianaceae, Gesneriaceae etc, inevitably many entries will be of potted plants. I haven't entered for a couple of years but mainly because I've not had plants worth the photographing recently. I hope to redress this during this year.

What surprises me is that of the NZ entries at least, and there are precious few of them, it is Forumists who are the entrants. Why not some of those who do very well indeed at our NZAGS show? I guess either one takes part in Online things whether showing, discussion or whatever, or one doesn't.

[ronm]

You are absolutely right Lesley. It was stated that this was not a photographic competition, etc.
I guess my point is that to see all of a plant in a photograph can make the picture so unclear as to make it unjudgeable! And when we consider that about 15% of the winning plants only showed flowers, its makes the show  appear very silly to me! BUT it would be great if it was only for garden shots, groupings and combinations. Forget if its subspecies x and therefore wrongly labelled, ( leave that to the 'live' shows,) go for the skills and overall appraisal of those members who physically cannot or have no interest in showing individual plants in pots! I don't believe the AGS will do his, and I can no longer be bothered to poke them for a response, but someone might, one day

[Lesley Cox]

If I may be permitted to disagree with the judges whoever they are, the class for a fruiting plant was inconsistent. The Ruscus may well have been photographed at night (I don't know obviously) and that could have been the reason why it was overlooked but it was hardly true to say there was not enough plant shown. After all, it was the fruit which the class called for. The first prize went to Podophyllum hexandrum with equally fine fruit but the plant itself was cut off at the top and it too, I would therefore have said not enough plant was shown. The effect was like that of a photo of a person but the feet missed by the camera.

One change I would like to see in the Rules of the show, is that the same photo could not be entered in two classes. After all at any other show a plant can't be in two places at once. An example is that two of the three photos in both the Southern Hemisphere class and the Australasia class are the same. It's no reflection on the exhibitor or on the picture but surely with so much material available, exhibitors could produce two pictures for the two classes.

[Martinr]

Some good comment and suggestions here but can I suggest you also post your thoughts on the AGS Forum to make sure they are seen by the people who can make a difference.

If you're concerned they won't be spotted I'll even take the responsibility of making sure the right people know they are there.

A few comments of my own.

It's meant to be fun so don't take it too seriously, note there is always a first unlike a 'real' show.

The judges comments are meant to be helpful advice so you can gain more red stickers next year.

The 'same photo in several classes' debate is ongoing. It has to date been allowed to encourage the maximum number of entries.

If you really want to have a bit of fun judge it yourself using the members choice facility and see how many you agree with the judges on (don't be hard take note of your 1st and 2nds). Quite educational.

And finally, remember, grumbling about judges decisions is standard for exhibitors at any show...I've even been known to question why they gave my plant a first!

[Tim Ingram]

Here's a suggestion then (and I made a similar remark on the AGS website); I do like the idea of members (and possibly also visitors to the website) judging the on-line gardens themselves - because whatever I say we do all judge what we look at - and we used to do something similar at the HPS Flower Show I was involved in for a class of cut flowers grouped in an arrangement (I suppose you could say analagous to a garden). In this case visitors to the Show judged the arrangements by putting beans into bowls, simple but effective. The stimulus would then be that the winning garden would be written about and featured in the Bulletin, so we could all gain a more in depth description. I am sure if garden owners were not keen to write up their own garden, friends or other AGS members could do so. This could have the combined benefit of stimulating the website (like Martin hopes), encouraging more members to contribute to the Bulletin (which could only be a good thing), and linking together the two, which again may stimulate new ideas and contributions in general. So I do withdraw the critique I made earlier, on the proviso that something like this can be made to work. I would find it fascinating.

[Martinr]

Tim, that is an excellent idea.

[Doreen Mear]

Just came across this thread tonight, and basically I’m with you, Martin! Here’s my thoughts, for what they’re worth:
1. For the first time I entered a few pictures on the AGS On-Line Show, just for a bit of fun and to see how they would measure up. I’m too far from Christchurch to take plants to the NZAGS show there.
2. Thankfully the AGS Show Schedule states that “Errors in naming will not disqualify” and I’m glad to have suggestions for the correct names for a couple of my plants
3. I don’t think I’m alone in being a bit reticent about showing and/or taking part in forums. For my part, I was stung when some time ago someone accused me of "showing off", whereas I was under the impression I was "sharing" my best plants. After that I stepped back somewhat. Other people are perhaps just too busy to join in showing and/or posting, more private and self-effacing or plain computer-shy.
4. If I’m judging a plant, I want to see it all, front and back and underneath as well, so the same goes for photos. It’s not too hard to take a nice photo of a few selected perfect blooms or perfect fruits in close-up, but I still want to see if it’s got manky leaves!
5. And finally, as the winner of the Australasian and Southern Hemisphere classes (yes, with the same photo of the same plant!) sorry but I actually didn’t have another quality Australasian or Southern Hemisphere plant or I'd have put it in – I’ll try and do better next year! 

[Doreen Mear]

In response to Tim's suggestion, personally I’m not sure about viewers having the vote. My efforts in the On-Line Show included 8 Members’ Choices, but only 5 of these won red stickers. The other 3 were deservedly beaten by better/rarer/more difficult plants, but (although I know it sounds elitist) Joe Public doesn’t always know what’s rare, difficult and slow to grow. I'm still learning myself.

Our local garden circle has a small competition each month, where everyone joins in the judging by awarding buttons rather than beans, and all too often it’s the eye-catching peony that gets the most buttons rather than the little soldanella.

I can see the Members’ Choice system might work well for gardens, but for specimen plants perhaps a combined system of judges + Members’ Choice?  

[Maggi Young]

Doreen, I am horrified that anyone would seriously accuse you of "showing off".
That is something of which a mis-guided person might accuse anyone sharing their pictures, plants or knowledge - I would hope that we would all realise that if that  those sharing were to be stung into reticence by such comments, then we would all be the poorer and learn precious little.

Interesting that all these comments about the AGS photo show are being made here - the obvious  conclusion to be drawn is that people feel their comments are able to be made here and discussion ensue.  The reasons for that may well be, as Martin has hinted, that it is not felt that any notice would be taken of them elsewhere.

In this Forum, there is so much opportunity for members to share their photos, whether of plants in pots, in their gardens or in the wild for the simple pleasure of sharing that it has never seemed necessary to have a "show" .... indeed, the over-emphasis on Shows in general is one which is a recurring criticism of other organisations and so this forum provides a non-competitive arena to share our  plants and gardens at will.  

Some good comment and suggestions here but can I suggest you also post your thoughts on the AGS Forum to make sure they are seen by the people who can make a difference.

If you're concerned they won't be spotted I'll even take the responsibility of making sure the right people know they are there.

Since the various suggestion for the AGS online show are being made here,  perhaps we can ask Martin to ensure that they are "seen by the people who can make a difference"  if those posting here are disinclined to post in the AGS site for whatever reason.
It would be a shame if their comments went unseen. 
 

[Doreen Mear]

Doreen, I am horrified that anyone would seriously accuse you of "showing off".
That is something of which a mis-guided person might accuse anyone sharing their pictures, plants or knowledge -

Maybe like Miss Piggy I should have given that stupid mis-informed beholder a black eye!

[Martinr]

Doreen, I am horrified that anyone would seriously accuse you of "showing off".
That is something of which a mis-guided person might accuse anyone sharing their pictures, plants or knowledge -

Maybe like Miss Piggy I should have given that stupid mis-informed beholder a black eye!

But only if you'd been willing to post the pictures, we like a good action movie

[KenC]

 Doreen's comment about some people being reticent about showing and / or taking part in forums is an important point.  For many of us, gardening is a solitary sport and sharing can be a little unnerving.  The On Line Show is non threatening and as Doreen states  'just for a bit of fun and to see how they would measure up'.  I find it difficult to criticize the learned people who take the time and effort to examine and judge all the entries.  Every time I read the (sometimes rather harsh) comments about the AGS I think of all those dedicated souls who do such a wonderful job.  Perhaps those seeking change should adopt the position ' First, do no harm'.   In the continuing debate about the various websites and forums I think a simple survey card could be included with the respective societies publication.  This would reach all members, not just those accessing the website.  A few pointed questions concerning members priorities and wishes could establish a consensus.  This seems a much more democratic approach than making a web postings and waiting for members to reply.       

[Tim Ingram]

Ken - it can also be those dedicated souls (like myself) who make harsh comments, not really to criticise but because we feel as strongly as others and see the need for new people to become involved in running the societies; never an easy thing for those who are being 'challenged', but surely necessary at times. Ultimately any challenging views will only get taken up if accepted as being of value and doing no harm as you say. Words are just there to exchange ideas, they do nothing in themselves. Why even judge something unless there is some sort of challenge to those taking part? That may be valued by some, and found offputting by others. I am not sure a consensus is really possible; a Society should really cater for all those who find they want to contribute to it, and to some extent be led by that.