Hybridizing Snowdrops 2012

[Matt T]

Looks like it has/will blow itself out before it gets here. Our forecast is quite pleasant (for the Hebrides) and today has been gloriously sunny.

[Rick Goodenough]

Rick - You must be a bit inland from the east coast as we missed the snow and wind.  New Brunswick, about 100km due north of here got walloped with both and passed on to the Hebrides.

Went to -2c last night and barely holding 0c presently.

johnw

I am inland by only about 5 miles and located SE of Boston, half way between Boston and Cape Cod. We are zone 6b here but winters are long and with a fair amount of snow cover beginning in early January. Not optimal for early bloomers, but I am going to go after very early ones for some autumn fun. Here is a shot of a G-r-o that bloomed last month and an early un-named elwesii that just finished up. Rick

[johnw]

Looks like it has/will blow itself out before it gets here. Our forecast is quite pleasant (for the Hebrides) and today has been gloriously sunny.

Pleased to hear that Matt.

Rick  - nice snowdrops.  G. reginae-olgae here was up an inch or so last week, I don't know if it will carry on to flowering once it warms up again.  Our problem seeds to be the dryish summers here make for very late starts on the autumn bloomers.  The same problem with Cyclamen hederifolium, if we don't start watering in late August they simply start flowering too late in the year.

johnw

[Leena]

Our problem seeds to be the dryish summers here make for very late starts on the autumn bloomers.  The same problem with Cyclamen hederifolium, if we don't start watering in late August they simply start flowering too late in the year.

I think this applies to Finland, too. Thank you.

[Alan_b]

if we don't start watering in late August they simply start flowering too late in the year.

I live in a particularly dry part of England but have no problems with cyclamen hederifolium which generally manage a few flowers in August, lots in September/October and a few stragglers on into November.

Here is the rainfall record from the nearby Cambridge Botanic Garden http://www.viridis.net/cubg/rain.html ; I'd be surprised if it isn't less than you get in Halifax.  My impression of Canada is that you have a very rapid transition from hot Summer to cold Winter and back from Winter to Summer making for short Autumns and Springs.  So by watering in August you are compensating for the fact that temperatures are still too high so as to achieve flowering as soon as temperatures drop low enough.   

[johnw]

I'd be surprised if it isn't less than you get in Halifax.  My impression of Canada is that you have a very rapid transition from hot Summer to cold Winter and back from Winter to Summer making for short Autumns and Springs.  So by watering in August you are compensating for the fact that temperatures are still too high so as to achieve flowering as soon as temperatures drop low enough.

Alan - Indeed we get between 50-60" of rain a year right here in my part of the city.  The rain is "spread evenly" throughout the months according to the books; in fact we get long stretches of dry summer weather and the average is made up  in a couple of heavy rains which rarely penetrate, all exascerbated by thin mineral soil.

This is a big country - a 9.5hour flight from St. John's to Victoria - and it hard to generalize but while much of the country often appears to go from winter straight into summer the coasts do not.  Our springs are the slowest imagineable with daff foliage often in good shape into July thanks to the Labrador Current, autumns linger on into November and sometimes December thanks to the Gulf Stream.  It could very well be our slow downward transition to autumn delays hederifolium flowering but I doubt it as the hotter Annapolis Valley of NS has them flowering 6 weeeks ahead of here on the coast. More retentive soil perhaps?

I wonder how the Boston area fares with hederifolium and the flowering dates there? They get far hotter than even interior NS (especially at night) and stay hotter longer. 

johnw - +5c & sunny

[Alan_b]

Visiting Anglesey Abbey today we saw G. 'Three Ships' in flower and a few Cyclamen hederifolium still producing flowers, although the vast majority have finished.  Unfortunately I didn't manage to get a decent picture of either; snowdrop flowers over-exposed because everything surrounding them is darker - how do you cope with that?

[johnw]

Alan  - I just had this from Carol Dancer out in BC.

"Just read the galanthus forum on the S.R.G.C. on hybridizing and on to when things bloom. I can't agree with you about the lack of rain being a contributing factor. We have next to no rain from May through to mid-October and I mean no rain. Even now with the autumn rains having begun the soil still isn't wet if one digs down about five or six inches yet cyclamen came into bloom in August and G. reginae-olgae was in bloom when I got back from N.S., mid October. "

Which take us back to square one. Do you reckon snowdrops, cyclamen and nerines have a set dormancy period that must be fulfilled before movement begins.  I ask as we too were absolutely bone dry the summer long  - down 2.5ft at least - and no moisture reached root zones until October after many torrential rains and still reginae-olgae 'Cambridge' is but 1.5" out of the ground and the earliest it has ever flowered was the 10th of November, followed by 23 November, the 17th of December and the 9th of January!

Thinking back I collected G. seed this year later than ever before, mid June, and the leaves lasted about a week to 10 days past that.  Cambridge in the ghouse is just as far off flowering as are those outdoors.  Interestingly hederifoliums in pots flower in August and are always itching to get going.  Thoughts?

Having a real winter that causes plants to shut down completely does make a huge difference and certainly compresses the main Galanthus flowering season in these parts.  Coul it be that the cold causes hederifolium root damage that must be "fixed' before regrowth starts?

johnw

[David Nicholson]

I'm sure I've seen "NS" mentioned a couple of times in this thread. What is it please?

[Alan_b]

... the hotter Annapolis Valley of NS ...

Annapolis Valley is in the Canadian province of Nova Scotia

[David Nicholson]

Ah. Thank you Alan.

[Rick Goodenough]

Alan - Indeed we get between 50-60" of rain a year right here in my part of the city.  The rain is "spread evenly" throughout the months according to the books; in fact we get long stretches of dry summer weather and the average is made up  in a couple of heavy rains which rarely penetrate, all exascerbated by thin mineral soil.

This is a big country - a 9.5hour flight from St. John's to Victoria - and it hard to generalize but while much of the country often appears to go from winter straight into summer the coasts do not.  Our springs are the slowest imagineable with daff foliage often in good shape into July thanks to the Labrador Current, autumns linger on into November and sometimes December thanks to the Gulf Stream.  It could very well be our slow downward transition to autumn delays hederifolium flowering but I doubt it as the hotter Annapolis Valley of NS has them flowering 6 weeeks ahead of here on the coast. More retentive soil perhaps?

I wonder how the Boston area fares with hederifolium and the flowering dates there? They get far hotter than even interior NS (especially at night) and stay hotter longer. 

johnw - +5c & sunny

John, I am only growing hederifolium for the first time this year (photo below).  I have had good luck with coum, so I am trying hederifolium and expect it will do well. My plan is for it to bloom with my fall drops. Is that too much to ask? I also have a number of both coum and hederifolium seedlings from a European supplier that are germinating nicely so I hope to better answer your question in a couple of years. Here is the Cyclamen seed supplier link if you are interested. Rick  http://www.bravenboer.tk/ 

[Alan_b]

.. I am trying hederifolium and expect it will do well. My plan is for it to bloom with my fall drops. Is that too much to ask?

In my UK garden, the few plants of C. hederifolium I grow show different flowering times, the later ones being at least a month later than the early.  The peak of flowering is in September, which is too early to coincide with snowdrops. 

[Rick Goodenough]

In my UK garden, the few plants of C. hederifolium I grow show different flowering times, the later ones being at least a month later than the early.  The peak of flowering is in September, which is too early to coincide with snowdrops.

Well Alan, maybe a bit of overlap in bloom times can be hoped for then, but if not, having that terrific foliage dotted around while the drops bloom will be a fine thing for me.

[johnw]

Rick  - Don't give up on coum, I tried it for years with no long term success, a friend nearby has them coming up everywhere and I'm finally getting a few dependable ones just now & they certasinly have no hesitation to start flower the second it feels like spring has arrived.  Do try purpurascens, the best of them all for the east - it is one that certainly starts flowering in early summer with a good continuous drink.

Alan - if your hederifolium peak is September then we are not too far off the mark with a mid to late October peak.  I suppose one should ask what sparks cyclamen flowering the wild? Surely as with the Greek Crocus it must be the autumnal rains that bring on the show.

johnw