Moan, moan, moan----get it off your chest or have a chat

[Tony Willis]

Lesley I agree that that creep from Lehmann's who was giving evidence last night was everthing I hate about finance but he is not the one with a mortgage and a family to support who will be losing his job. When we say how much we hate banks we have to remember those people in for example Halifax or Bradford who will be unemployed. Also when they are in work they are spending money in the local community and keeping businesses going.

RBS and HBOS are the two largest employers in Scotland. I laugh when I think the CEO of RBS got his knighthood for services to banking.I wonder if he will give it back.

What really gets me is the goverments holier than thou attitude when they were happy to fuel vast increases in spending and the regulators they put in place let it all happen. Any fool could have seen this problem coming.

Maggie I deleted the political bit that followed!!

[Martin Baxendale]

I know it's a serious situation but I can't help having a very warm feeling about Banks having their g*****s squeezed!

What bugs me is that the US and the UK governments seem to be getting off scot free in this whole financial fiasco, while they point accusing fingers at the financial institutions.

It was the US and UK governments that deregulated the financial industry then sat back and watched the credit/housing bubble grow to what was blatantly obviously unsustainable levels - because it kept the US and UK economies growing and kept voters happy as they saw the (illusory) values of their houses rocketing.

They could have slowed or even stopped the credit/housing bubble ages ago but they sat back and watched as banks and building societies offered loans of 110% of house purchase prices, self-certification of earnings for loan applications with no proof of ability to repay, arguably immoral and exploitative targeting of low-income people (in the US, mainly black and hispanic people - whose homes are now being repossesed on a massive scale) who couldn't really afford to take on mortagages but were conned into it by low starting interest rates, etc.

And the political leaders are  now acting like it was nothing to do with them, like they didn't know what was going on and couldn't do anything about it.

Grrrrrrrr!  

[Martin Baxendale]

Oh, and then there were all those endless bloody TV programmes about property - buy it, renovate it, buy another one, make money, buy it and rent it, buy one abroad, make more money - that helped fuel the housing bubble.

I feel sorry for anyone who bought a house in the UK in the last couple of years, but at least we may now (finally) see overinflated house prices drop back towards a level where young families can get an affordable home (NOT, NOT, NOT that God-awful phrase, 'a foot on the housing ladder' or a 'first step into the housing market' AAAARGH!)

P.S. I have no personal axe to grind. I don't work in banking, I have zilch savings, and my house is losing value daily (and I don't mind). 

[Lesley Cox]

I absolutely agree with everything you both, Tony, Martin, say. We here too and it seems around the world have been thoroughly conned into huge mortgages which we can't afford (not me personally, thank goodness, very happy with our small 3 bed, 1 bath etc) and are being kicked badly now as a result. But it may mean eventually that, as you said Martin, young families who've resisted the urge so far, are able to buy houses at reasonable prices. I really don't have much sympathy with the greedies who've pushed up prices way beyond the reach of "ordinary" people by buying 2, 3, 4 etc on their ruddy "ladder" in order to make money by pushing house values up falsely. I believe we should have a capital gains tax on housing other than the "lived in" house. We've even had cases here of 18 year olds borrowing for this purpose, kids still in school or at 'varsity.

[johnw]

I phoned and asked my financial advisor if he had installed seat belts on all the office chairs. He said no. He said instead he ordered the windows locked and no more lunches out on the ledge.

johnw

[Lesley Cox]

Thanks John for bringing us back to our non-political senses but you mustn't blame us/me for feeling something of that lovely German word, schadenfreude for the idiots who over-indulged and now have indigestion

[Tony Willis]

well said Martin!

This problem affects everybody and it is self inflicted but I expect we will survive.

I was going to jump out of the bedroom window yesterday but a number of things stopped me

there were some nice plants underneath which wolud have been damaged
there was a very nice dinner cooking
I would only have broken my legs which would be no help.

I have looked and I have a small collection of alliums which will add some flavour to the crocus stew.

I think Maggie may have to change my whatever its called under my name from wandering star to blackhole.


Having a new roof on the house today and so oh well of to look at some nice flowers in the greenhouse out of the way.

[Anthony Darby]

I know it's a serious situation but I can't help having a very warm feeling about Banks having their g*****s squeezed!

Is that being goolish?

Not for nothing are these city types called merchant bankers! RBS's troubles started when they absorbed the Halifax and now both have been taken over by the Toytown bank. How are the mighty fallen.

[gote]

People will always do the possible and try to be as sucessful as possible.
They will also judge opportunities and risks for themselves before risks for other people.
In The US (and I think the UK) you can start a limited company without any cash at all.
It is possible to say that the share capital is X billions but not pay a cent. This means that the chain of responsibility is very weak. The owners do not risk any money.
In Sweden, Germany, Switzerland and many others you must get the share capital paid  before you are up and running and there are minimum requirements
No Swedish limited company (Aktiebolag) can start without having 100.000 SEK in cash in the bank.
This capital must be there at all times. Working capital is created by selling the sahres above nomina value.
If the capital of the company falls below the nominal issued share capital, the
board of directors must take immediate action .- raise more capital or liquidate. The idea is that the paid up share capital always shall be available to pay the creditors.
If they do not - the directors answer with their PRIVATE wealth for the losses of the company. There is no need for the prosecution to show evidence of negligence. The balance sheet is proof.
This means that a Swedish bank director thinks twice before issuing sub-prime loans.
The US diectors not only issued sub-prime loans. They sold these loans on to European banks as prime loans which is fraud.
So much about the reasons for the debacle.
I think that we will not face such a desaster as in 1930. The central banks and the govermnments are filling up with cash and lowered interest rates in a way that nobody did then.
Göte

 

[gote]

Now the questions about Japanese members.
Perhaps we should try to advertise the forum to Japanese gardeners.
There are a lot of plants out there and there is a lot of knowledge.
Many Japanes are unfortunately very reluctant to express themselves in English.
However, if we were to e-mail to those who have English-language homepages about plants and suggest a visit to the forum perhaps we would gain some valuable members.
Göte 

[Lesley Cox]

Your first of these two posts says everything that SHOULD be happening here and elsewhere Gote, but is not. The Swedish have a much more responsible attitude to other people's money.

Your second post is an excellent idea.

[Joakim B]

Göte as You know companies makes great losses ending in collapses of the company in Sweden as well and that is without the board being asked for the money! The asset was not worth 100 million as they thought just 20 million and that is that. Having 100 000 on the bank does not help that much after that.
The Swedish banks were very close to go belly up some 15 years ago when they overvalued houses and properties to high interests and then when the ones with the loan could not pay the rent they value was much less when the bank wanted to sell.
They got out of that by asking more money of there shareholders as well as the state garrnteed the money of the people in normal accounts (maybe for a fee that the banks have to pay?) and more importantly the bank made there own property companies so that they could have there bad loans to themselves. Later on the stockholders got these property companies and it was a good deal for the stockholders.
Swedish banks also are very tightly connected to many of the big companies so that they can help each other. Through their stock owners and by owning stocks of each other. The banks have been more carefulle after that I think.
Most European banks seem to survive and if the US can hold there banks under the arms then the crize will calm even if properties will go down in value. Redo the loans into normal loans so that people can pay them back or at least pay the interest and by that keep their homes until better times. That would slow the crice down and save the people with loans and not the companies with the bad loans. Maybe it would save both?

Did not the same happen in US 15 years ago when there was a lot of Japanese companies that saw their US assets going down in value enormously?
History seems to repeat itself!! It is just variations around the same theme.!!
Just my humble opinion.
Great idea with more Japanese growers. They do excell in some plants in perticular like hepatica amongst others.
Kind regards
Joakim

[Maggi Young]

Now the questions about Japanese members.
Perhaps we should try to advertise the forum to Japanese gardeners.
There are a lot of plants out there and there is a lot of knowledge.
Many Japanes are unfortunately very reluctant to express themselves in English.
However, if we were to e-mail to those who have English-language homepages about plants and suggest a visit to the forum perhaps we would gain some valuable members.
Göte 

Göte, this is a good suggestion and I would encourage anyone who knows of such a Japanese person/ website to contact them with details of this SRGC site and Forum.
When Fred has given us statistics for visitors to the SRC website, it has proved that the range of countries using the site is indeed VERY GREAT.... but I am not sure how we can do much to encourage those visitors to become more involved than they want to be!!??

[Tony Willis]

Not for nothing are these city types called merchant bankers! RBS's troubles started when they absorbed the Halifax and now both have been taken over by the Toytown bank. How are the mighty fallen.

Regrettably incorrect RBS did not take over the Halifax it was Bank of Scotland that joined with it.RBS foolishly bought ABN Amrow at the top of the market when it had delusions of grandeur.

[Anthony Darby]

Sorry, my bank is RBS and I put that in instead of her older sister B o S.