Royal Botanic Garden Edinburgh - alpine house and news

[Dionysia]

Although the Tuebingen alpine house may not be an exciting shape they are getting good results which is surely the most important thing. Brigitte Fiebig and her team visited Gill and I , Eric Jarrett, Nigel Fuller and Hans Kaupert last spring. They are building a collection of dionysias of known wild origin and came to collect some plants and take cuttings. They have had excellent rooting results and I know Michael Kammerlander was pleased with their progress when he visited them a few weeks ago. As an added bonus they have sent some seed collected from their plants as they are not interested in garden pollinated seed.

[Maggi Young]

Although the Tuebingen alpine house may not be an exciting shape they are getting good results which is surely the most important thing. Brigitte Fiebig and her team visited Gill and I , Eric Jarrett, Nigel Fuller and Hans Kaupert last spring. They are building a collection of dionysias of known wild origin and came to collect some plants and take cuttings. They have had excellent rooting results and I know Michael Kammerlander was pleased with their progress when he visited them a few weeks ago. As an added bonus they have sent some seed collected from their plants as they are not interested in garden pollinated seed.

Of course you are right, Paul - it is how the structure works as a plant-house that matters. Very good that the Tuebingen team is getting this help from you guys- reminds me of the relationship of several Scots with Gothenburg in their early days. So much good can come - in both directions - from such co-operations.

[ronm]

I'm sure this has been discussed elsewhere on the Forum, but don't ( at least ) some of the so called publicly owned Botanic Gardens say that they are not allowed to disseminate plant material??
In these days of such Institutions begging for money from anywhere ( as opposed to running a self financing business ), I still think it would make sense for them to become more sustainable by playing to their strengths, i.e. exploiting their ability to grow material to excess. Instead of a direct sales policy ( which I believe is the problem ), maybe a subscription to the charity they represent ( or however they have veiled themselves ) allowing subscribers access to treasured material, along the lines of subscriptions to seed / plant collecting trips in the past.
Let us face it, rumours of preferential 'sneaking' out of material and / or 'black market' dealing in rarities has been rife for many years. This is not meant to be directed particularly at this particular botanic garden, but an attempt to seek from knowledgeable Forumists what exactly is the position regarding wild collected material and Botanic gardens?

[Lesley Cox]

This is the case with, e.g. the Dunedin Botanic Gardens here in NZ. They are not allowed to distribute either seeds or plants which they've received in the first instance from other similar institutions. This is a great shame as many rare things are grown and if lost there.....?

I have sold but also given many plants to the DBG, mostly alpines, and when I asked for a cutting of one recently, to replace what I'd lost, was told of this policy. I pointed out that their plants had come from me in the first place but either they didn't believe me or their records were in error because I still was unable to be given a cutting.

[Maggi Young]

The rule for many Botanic Gardens is that they will not disseminate material from plants of wild origin. This is to comply ( theoretically) with the desire of many countries, not to have "foreigners" benefitting financially from their natural resources and the fear is that material getting "out" into the wider world may be used for commercial gain.  This takes little account of the capacity of  expert amateurs to grow plants that could take the strain off wild populations. Neither does it take account of the service so many of amateurs growers have done for Botanic Gardens in sharing material, such as has been written of above- and of replacing rare plants when botanivc gardens have managed to  lose them .... it seems that Tuebingen has behaved very sensibly in sharing seed of plants that is of garden origin- not important to them from their strict provencance/wild origin rules, but very useful for gardeners!

There are instances, it must be said, of slavish and somewhat nonsensical adherence to "rules" which actually have fairly narrow applications - perhaps they just find that easier!

[alanelliott]

I'm sure this has been discussed elsewhere on the Forum, but don't ( at least ) some of the so called publicly owned Botanic Gardens say that they are not allowed to disseminate plant material??

Publicly owned is the key thing here. Governments sign up to treaties and conventions like the Convention on Biological Diversity (CBD) and Publicly owned Botanic Gardens are therefore constrained by the laws the country signed up to. Private individuals and companies are also subject to the same laws but it is harder to enforce so they get away with it. Yes the CBD was primarily set up to stop explotation of biological resources that are worth huge sums of money to drugs companies and valuable resources like timber but Horticulture however small fish it is in comparisonis percieved by developing countries as a source of income especially when they hear about how many millions its worth to our economy. The CBD was ment to be about giving back to the country of origin, training, education, capacity building, cheap medicines etc. But people want cold hard cash its as simple as that.

It is increasingly difficult to work or gain permits to even study plants without collecting in certain areas of the world - particularly vocal latin and south American countries and India for example . If Botanic Gardens are seen to be using thier position for even a percieved financial benifit those countries will flat refuse to permit any access to their plants or collections etc for legitimate rsearch purposes for fear of losing out finincially and then who benifits?  If our government had not signed the CBD we would be in the position of botanic gardens/research institutes who do not get any sort of offical access to where they want to collect or do research because their Governement have not signed the CBD. We've has been audited in the past by countries wanting to know what collections from their country we hold, who had been given access, and where material went. Suffice to say they werent happy.

Think of the flipside. You'd expect a national outcry if bus loads of the "chinese alpine garden society" tourists went to Sutherland and helped themselves to a Primula scotica or Turkish nurserymen came helped themselves and commercialised it to the detriment of the wild populations.

The world has changed significantly since the good-old day of the famous collection trips. People need to move on and help find a happy medium where they can get access to plants from countries without being seen to helping themselves. Like supporting initiatives such as in-country cultivation of plants that can them be exported so everyone gets what they want - this is already happening with at least one nursery who exported tens of thousands of bulbous plants from India that were grown on in the country before exported to the UK - they even put plants back into the wild populations they took their inital stock from. Thats almost verging on a Christmas miracle.

[Tim Ingram]

There is a little piece about this in the latest 'Plantsman' (Plant Hunters Convene). Individually those who have a great interest in plants, from whatever perspective, tend to have similar views, but collectively we seem to diverge. What can be said is that many people who collect seed and plants from the wild make close and significant links with local people (eg: Chris Chadwell and Stella and David Rankin) and that must be a very valuable thing in increasing awareness about the diversity and value that plants have, both commercially and aesthetically.

[ChrisB]

Our group were treated to a guided tour of the rock garden and the alpine houses on Thursday.  Thought you might like to see how the new one is progressing.  Also just a few shots I took on our tour....

I was most impressed with the Narcissus cyclamineus which is seeding everywhere...
Also, Hacquetia; Adonis and Pulsatilla... 

Very windy day so it was hard to take photos.

[ChrisB]

here is the narcissus pic.......

[krisderaeymaeker]

Our group were treated to a guided tour of the rock garden and the alpine houses on Thursday.  Thought you might like to see how the new one is progressing.  Also just a few shots I took on our tour....
I was most impressed with the Narcissus cyclamineus which is seeding everywhere...
Also, Hacquetia; Adonis and Pulsatilla... 
Very windy day so it was hard to take photos.

Now we get an impression Chris , thanks to share your pictures. Actually , this afternoon we where discussing this project in Utrecht. It was my friend Ger who mentioned it .....He was in Edinburgh for lectures las month ...   

[ChrisB]

Holes have been drilled into the tufa rock and before we left they were putting soil into some of the outside ones.  There is soil behind the rock wall and although you can't see it, there is a special netting in front of the wall as well as the glass overhang, but lots of air movement is going to happen all the time.  Brilliant idea and its coming together nicely.  We got to see the plant plugs that are ready to be planted as soon as the holes are filled, but it will take a long time, more than a thousand plants to go in it.

[Maggi Young]

A good friend of the SRGC, Elisabeth Zander of Connecticut, attended an SRGC "viewing" of the new  RBGE alpine house and tufa wall this week. Elisabeth was kind enough to send me some photos.....


the unveiling


the dedication plaque of the new house


John Mitchell  of RBGE and SRGC - explains  how the hundreds of  holes drilled in the tufa  are planted


Gesneriads, including Jankaea heldreichii

[Maggi Young]

Further photos from Elisabeth:

[David Nicholson]

Looking good

[Philippe]

I was only once in Edinburgh, for 20 years, but this was at a time I didn't have much interest for plants, and sure none for alpines which I didn't even know. Would be time to think about a little trip to Scotland again. The pics of the new alpine house really make me think that I must absolutely visit the garden too in Edinburgh, and spend then some days in the Highlands after that!