orchid seed on cardboard

[mark smyth]

I cant find the thread that referred to and showed photos of orchid seed sown on wet cardboard.

How did they do?

Anyone got the link?

I really want to try seed sowing this year but not symbiotically. I'm in the mood. I collected pods off my Orchis mascula.

[Maggi Young]

I think it may have been Hristo or Sinchets who mentioned that...... the cardboard pieces were stored upended in containers..... does that sound right?
I'll see what I can find   

[Maggi Young]

Here's a start:
an article in the Winter 2006 issue of the Alpine Garden Club of British Columbia describing a Japanese technique for germinating orchid seed on a cardboard scratching pad soaked with compost tea.
http://www.agc-bc.ca/bulletin/AGCofBC-winter2006.pdf   ....piece starts on page 6


And you'll need a translator for this one : http://www.sumirenomiwaku.net/ran/tanetane02.htm

 Can't find the Forum ref. as yet!

[Maggi Young]

Aha! https://www.srgc.org.uk/forum/index.php?topic=6490.msg181713#msg181713 .. that post and some more on the same page.

Hristo applied this cardboard method to seed sowing in 2010.

Results so far are germinations of;
Spiranthes romanzohffiana, D.saccifera,D.romana,O.laxiflora ssp. elegans and D.sambucina.
A not very scientific approach was employed;
1) cardboard cut into strips and placed into a take away cake container
2) The addition of 'juice' from my compost heap
3) The addition of lignin consuming fungi from beech woodlands
4) The addition of root samples from target orchid species
Sow the Seed
5) Left to get frosted for a couple of days
6) Moved indoors to temps 3 tp 9c and in the dark
The joy of this system is that aseptic conditions are not required!!!!

[mark smyth]

Thanks Maggi

[Guus]

Hi Mark and others,
I did the same last year (2011) in autumn with Dact.praetermissa and later with several other species (Cyp. flavum, Cyp reginae, Ophrys apifera, Cephalanthera damansonia). Dacts germinated easily within two weeks! All other species I tried are until now unsuccessful. But the seed quality can be the cause. I do some asymbiotic sowing as well and often a seedlot does not show any germination.
But now an important remark: I lost all the small plants because of the developing animals that were in the compost-tea, they turned the cardboard into a very nice compost! Watch out the black flies as well!

Greetings, Guus

[winwen]

But now an important remark: I lost all the small plants because of the developing animals that were in the compost-tea, they turned the cardboard into a very nice compost! Watch out the black flies as well!

Greetings, Guus

Guus,
I think that's the point!

You can not sterilize the compost-tea with this method, because it also contains the fungus, necessary to germinate the seeds. On the other hand, if you do not sterilize it, things go wrong as well. I worked with the B1 on non starch/sugar based media (woodfiber,cardboard) and found out (even when sterilized BEFORE inoculated with the B1) that on such media seedling-development AFTER germination was very weak - if there was further development at all.

So my conclusion is: germinating Dactylorhiza seeds is easy, but the way to a healthy plant is still much longer - too long for this method.

[mark smyth]

there goes my enthusiasm out the door.

Can the ordinary person succeed using asymbiotic methods?

Maybe I should simply spread my orchid seed in the miniature Hostas pots

[Guus]

Hi Mark and all the others....,
Please don't stop trying everything that comes up in your minds as probably a way of sowing symbiotic. Once we will find a way to do it. What I started to do is take some soil from the area the plants grows in and use it as a base for the cardboard layers. Hopefully the right fungi are in the sample.
Let's keep up trying and reporting.
Greetings, Guus

[mark smyth]

Guus have you succeeded with cardboard?

[lily-anne]

Please wait Mark. I am also busy  sowing Dactylorhiza using cardboard, but need help to write a text.
More tomorrow
Greetings Lily-Anne

[mark smyth]

OK

[lily-anne]

Hello Mark ( and others),

Please, don't be put off. Sowing on cardboard is very fascinating and a real challenge, maby even more because very few people have tried to do it.

My first experiences with sowing on cardboard was with Bletilla striata. It was incredibly exciting. When the first germinated seedlings got visible, with a strong magnifying glass(!), I was so thrilled.  After some time, the seedlings were plantend out in another medium, which was also a fun job to do. First they grew very slowly, but now most of the plants are planted out in the garden. It will take a long time before they'll ever bloom, but the effort was worth it. It was great fun!

Last year I sowed Dactylorhiza using cardboard but with a different soil mixture. It worked  well,  and at this moment I have seedlings that are already in a larger pot with a medium. The tallest of these seedlings are now about 2 to 3 cm. I guess they'll stop growing gradually now for this year, but so far everything is pretty good.

About a week ago I have  sown fresh Dactylorhiza seeds again. The composition of the medium is somewhat different than the previous time, to encourage and to speed up the development of the right mold(s) as much as possible. This way (i hope) the seeds will get  a better start. I think it is  necessary to add shredded cardboard in any kind of medium that you'll use for sowing dactylorhiza, because the cardboard seems to help the development of the fungi.

I imagine that my reaction will raise many questions.  I will write down all the details of this experiment as well as possible, so others can benefit of my experience (both positive and negative).   The more people that are trying this,  the more likely that a very good feasible method can be found.

To my great regret my English is not that good, so I need the help of some translation to write something on this forum.  This makes it a bit difficult to respond quickly, but i'll try to do so.

Ps.:  I'll apreciate also reactions by Hirsto and others so we can learn from their experiences


Greetings
Lily- Anne

[Maren]

Lily-Anne,

I look forward to your detailed explanation of your methods. I was just give a lot of dactylorhiza seed which should be sown within a week. I would like to try it your way.

[winwen]

Lily-Anne,

Bletilla striata does not require a symbiotic fungus at all. Seeds germinate on ordinary moist soil or in Sphagnum as well.
With Dactylorhiza, things are completely different. The problem that I see is, that if you are using compost-tea, you inoculate your medium with certain fungi. Fine if it works, but even this configuration has hardly repeatable results. If Mark does the same, he probably has different fungi in his medium with questionable impact.
So Marks results will probably be different than yours.

If we do not isolate the fungi of which we know that they work properly, we will not be able to get the same results more than once.