Aroids (the family Araceae)

[Diane Clement]

Last year I had good germination on Arisaema yunnanense, from Lijang, China, Pilous seed.  ...  Does anyone have a photo of this species they can post, or have any cultural advice regarding this species.  I heard it comes from sunny drier spots, much like A. flavum.

This is what I have as Arisaema yunnanense, just opening up.  They came from Chen Yi, and I don't think they are the right thing.  I'll photograph it again when the leaves unfurl.
As for culture, I grow almost all my Arisaema in pots, I use a mixture of ericaceous compost and perlite, with extra perlite under the tuber.

[TheOnionMan]

Arisaema yunnanense, just opening up.  I've got two in the pot, came from Chen Yi, so I hope they are the right thing.  I'll photograph it again when the leaves unfurl.
As for culture, I grow almost all my Arisaema in pots, I use a mixture of ericaceous compost and perlite, with extra perlite under the tuber.  I've not done anything different with this species.

Diane, thanks for showing.  How tall is your plant shown in the photo?  Does the foliage get taller?

[Pascal B]

Sorry Diane but that is not Arisaema yunnanense but a member of section Sinarisaema, I count at least 5 leaflets that will form a radiatisect leaf. Yunnanense has a single tripartite leaf with a forward pointing spathe blade and an appendix that is not erect and enclosed but exerted from the spathe and slowly getting thin. For pictures, see: http://www.aroid.org/genera/arisaema/herold/Pages/aryunn.php

[Diane Clement]

Sorry Diane but that is not Arisaema yunnanense but a member of section Sinarisaema, I count at least 5 leaflets that will form a radiatisect leaf.

Thanks Pascal, I was suspicious when I saw the leaf emerging with a narrow leaflet rising up first.  There's another tuber in the pot, I think this is something different as well, but at the moment is still just a shoot.  Do you have any ideas what the pictured one might be? 

[Pascal B]

Join the club Diane, you are not the first getting a different plant from what you expected from the lady in China.

As for the ID of your plant, I simply don't know. I have seen so many Sinarisaema from China that don't fit the box of one of the known species that I think it would take a lifetime to sort out the mess of consanguineum, ciliatum and many other species. Guestimate? A. consanguineum in one of its forms. But don't be surprised to find stolons at the end of the season and it is a green form of ciliatum liubaense, if that exists.....

Some background info, ciliatum was described from a herbarium specimen by Li Heng, the holotype is in RBGE. It was not known at that time if it was stoloniferous or not. The holotype is a small plant of about 25 cm with a comparetively big flower which indeed has noticeable ciliae. The connection "Arisaema ciliatum = stoloniferous" was made afterwards based on "dark striped Sinarisaema with ciliae must be ciliatum and is stoloniferous so ciliatum is stoloniferous". This practise in itself is not unusual in taxonomy but a little bit hard to prove unless you find plants exactly like the holotype at the holotype location that are stoloniferous. But I have seen all green plants without ciliae that are stoloniferous, I have seen plants with ciliae but non-stoloniferous so I have lost it a bit..... Much work still needed in this group of radiatisect species from China, certainly if it is near impossible to find stable characters to distinguish species on.

To show you what I mean, the plant underneath has tiny ciliae, is stoloniferous but is all green, has an extremely long spathe tip upto 30 cm in length and an extraordinary clavate appendix tip. I have no idea what it is but the appendix does not fit ciliatum at all..... And who knows, maybe it is just a funny variant in a population. Ciliatum in most populations in the wild has forms with and without ciliae growing together and everything in between so is it worth recognising the "naked" form as ciliatum var. liubaense? Maybe not...

PS. One thing it definitely is not and that is A. erubescens, a name you will often find in Chinese literature and they stubbornly keep on using for consanguineum in China. Erubescens however is a strict endemic from Nepal but unfortunately according to the FOC, the species consanguineum no longer exists and is reduced to a synonym of erubescens. So don't try to key out any Arisaema from section Sinarisaema with the FOC is my advice.....

[Pascal B]

Roland, as promised a picture of the Tibetan form of Arisaema flavum. The flowers open like the right one, the yellow gets more intense after a few days as you can see in the left one. This form has an unusually large spathe blade. According to the person who collected it it does flower in its native country more or less before it leaves unfurl, probably because of the drier soil and the time it takes for the monsoon to reach Tibet. In cultivation it behaves just like any other form and flowers with the leaves completely unfurled. In my collection it gets about a meter tall.

[Diane Clement]

Join the club Diane, you are not the first getting a different plant from what you expected from the lady in China

      and it's not the first time I have got a different plant from that lady. But it's often something interesting.  I'm waiting to see what else comes from the same pot.  I realise now there are two other shoots.  

Thanks Pascal, it's really interesting to hear your thoughts.  
I'm also getting more and more confused about Aa consanguineum and ciliatum in its forms.  If it is true that A consanguineum is not stoloniferous, then I'm beginning to think I have never seen consanguineum and that A ciliatum is much more commonly grown, and often with the name consanguineum.
Can I repost here for the sake of keeping this discussion together, Arisaema from the AGS Summer North show.  
These pictures are of a pot labelled A consanguineum.  Looking at the pot, this looks like it is propagating from stolons, making it ciliatum.  No ciliae, so it's var liubaense, that's my reasoning.
As I understand it, var liubaense was named by Gouda and Gusman from one group of seedlings that was found to be very similar, and distributed under the single collection number of CT 369.  The plants that I have seen have a spathe which is dark brown with white stripes.  Does var liubaense always have this colouring?

[Pascal B]

These pictures are of a pot labelled A consanguineum.  Looking at the pot, this looks like it is propagating from stolons, making it ciliatum.  No ciliae, so it's var liubaense, that's my reasoning.
As I understand it, var liubaense was named by Gouda and Gusman from one group of seedlings that was found to be very similar, and distributed under the single collection number of CT 369.  The plants that I have seen have a spathe which is dark brown with white stripes.  Does var liubaense always have this colouring?

Diane, your reasoning is (by current literature) correct.

Not sure what var. liubaense should look like as far as colouring, I don't have the article at hand, still in a box unpacked after I moved house. CT stands for Carla Theune from Leiden Botanic Garden. CT369 was indeed one of a bunch of collection numbers that turned out to be similar so were lumped together and marketed by the Dutch wholesale company Hoog & Dix under CT369. The one I have grown I bought from Paul Christian but had to destroy it many years ago due to virus. Since then I had several similar looking plants from China under various numbers but most were dark purple striped and I guess that many var. liubaense currently on the market are similar imports. Given its prolific nature it is one of the fastest spreading Chen Yi Arisaema in cultivation. Plus it hybridises easily which make proper identifications even more difficult.

Var. liubaense is basically described as the "naked" form of ciliatum and was named after the nearby town where CT369 and the other numbers were collected (Liuba in Sichuan Province). Odd in a way because the variety then is "the variety which lacks the defining character the species is named after...."....
Because it seems just one end of the variational range for ciliae size I have never recognised this variety but any standard striped radiatisect Arisaema from China producing stolons and lacking ciliae is var. liubaense unless it has some other unusual characters. So in that sense yes, there is a lot of ciliatum in cultivation if you follow Gouda & Gusman in their reasoning.....

The question is how many "pure" CT369 are still around. If I remember correctly the big group at Utrecht Botanic Garden is from the original introduction but because Sinarisaema are very susceptible to virus I am reducing the number of species I grow and only retain the interesting species. Ciliatum is not one of them....

The original Arisaema consanguineum from Nepal is unstriped green, sometimes tinged purple and has distinct drooptips on the leaflets.
The forms from Arunachal Pradesh further to the east get a dark spathe blade but wether the striped plants are also consanguineum and how the transition from evenly coloured to striped forms would then occur only proper fieldwork can answer.

The first picture in this link is pretty close to what consanguineum looks like:
www.gds-staudenfreunde.de/public/index/rubrik/Fachgruppe%20Blumenzwiebeln%20und%20Rhizome/unterrubrik/Bildersammlung
One of the other pictures shows the group of var. liubaense also at Utrecht Botanic Garden.

[olegKon]

Two more arisaemas in flower now
1. Received as Arisaema dracontium, but doesn't match the description in the Gusmans' book (any ideas of what it is?)
2. Arisaema jaquemontii

[Lesley Cox]

LIke the first very much Oleg. It almost looks pink.

[PeterT]

a couple of arisaemas in my garden just now

Arisaema erubescens-I think.JPG
029.JPG
arisaema jaqumontii- I think.JPG

[Pascal B]

Paul, your jacquemontii is indeed jacquemontii, the plants on the first 2 pictures however belong to the ciliatum group. Arisaema erubescens doesn't occur in China (it only grows in Nepal) and usually has flowers in shades of brown or brown green with broader stripes. It has less leaflets which are shiny and more narrow. The petiole and peduncle are also heavily striated in shades of brown or orange or salmon pink. In the wild it often flowers before the leaves, attached an example of true erubescens.
By the look of them I assume you got these plants directly or indirectly from China which usually means Chen Yi has been the source. Chen Yi simply named her plants based on the FOC and then names such as erubescens start to circulate for Chinese plants but true erubescens is very rare in cultivation, also because it has never been commercially available. The main author of the Arisaema treatment of the FOC, Li Heng, persists in using the name erubescens for some Chinese taxa despite efforts by both Guy Gusman and myself to convince her that view is incorrect.

[PeterT]

Thanks Pascal, I shall give the A cilliatum group a new label, both it and the jaqumontii, came either from Pottertons, Edrom, or AGS seed, I shall have to dig round to find the origional label , I have never bought directly from Chen Yi as yet
This is another clump which did come from Pottertons,
and what I think is A speciosum, In which case I think it came from the Wisley shop a few years ago.
Regards PETER

[bulborum]

A few days in flower
one of my favourites
Arisaema saxatille
on the first picture male and female flower

Roland

[PeterT]

That's beautifull Roland