iris sibirica?

[David Pilling]

Hi,

I have a problem. There are Iris in the garden which have persisted for 50 years or more. They look and behave like Iris sibirica, they came as "an iris from siberia". But... the few photos I can find on the web show the seed of this iris as being akin to lily seed.

For example:

http://www.signa.org/index.pl?Display+Iris-sibirica+5

I've attached a photo of my seed and pod, clearly it is not ripe and will probably end up as a brown or black round shape.

Does any one know what I. sibirica seed looks like, or what Iris I actually have.

[Maggi Young]

Iris siberica - seed photo http://www.ars-grin.gov/npgs/images/sbml/Iris_sibirica_nsh.jpg

[Lvandelft]

Wow these pics of the seeds are so good!

David, the seedpods  on my Iris sibirica look probably different.
Iris sibirica is in Europe a so-called “meadow iris”. I have seen it en masse near the Bodensee.
Here a link in German where the wild form is described by a hardy plant nursery man:
http://www.gaissmayer.de/index/seiten/iris-schwertlilien/wieseniris-iris-sibirica.htm

Here some pics of the seedpods today:

[David Pilling]

Hi,

Thank you both, you're very good.

Maggi, oddly enough a week or so back someone told me how good the seed photos on that site were. I didn't think to look there. I reckon they look so good because there is some light coming from the side.

So if the seed is wrong, I must not have I. sibirica, but what is it...

I'll attach some photos. In the long run I suppose I wait for the seed to ripen properly and then look at the different seed photos. It is about four foot high, a thick patch of leaves and stems.

[David Nicholson]

Iris spuria variant or hybrid perhaps? This is what Brian Mathew has to say about the seed capsule of the type species.

"The shape and character of the capsules and seeds is probably the most important: the capsule has a long narrow beak at the apex and there are six ribs running along it longitudinally, these being in three pairs rather than equally spaced around the capsule. The seeds are hard but they are enclosed within a loose papery coat............."

[David Pilling]

David - good try, but I think not. The lines on the seed capsule are equally spaced, and looking at the SIGNA database the seeds are again akin to lily seeds.

http://www.signa.org/index.pl?Display+Iris-spuria-subsp.-spuria+3

Around four years back, I got a bumper crop of seed, sent it to the seed-ex as I. sibirica, if it didn't go in the bin as obviously wrong, should be flowering soon.

[Lvandelft]

Eventually a cross of I. sibirica with I. setosa??

[David Pilling]

Luit - I could go along with that. Seeds look right. Thank you.

I've blundered past I. setosa a few times on the web today, without the penny dropping.

I believe it will grow from seeds, seems to have happened in the garden, but it will be interesting to try under controlled conditions.

[Paul T]

David,

It's a beauty, whatever it is.  As you say. looks like a sibirica, but if the seds are wrong it either can't be, or is an anomoly in the species (has happened before I'm sure!  ).  I love the colour, and good dense clump to it as well.  It will be interesting to hear whether others from the seedex have had it flower or not.  Have any of your own seedlings in the garden flowered, and are they the same as the parent?  The seedlings may given clues to hybrid origin if it does involve setosa?

[David Pilling]

Paul - the story is that the clump in the photo grew from a seed. For a few years there was a miserable looking iris leaf or two there, and then it suddenly took off.

I found this text:

Sibtosa – (Sibiricae x I.setosa) – a very attractive group of hybrids. A. Perry first crossed these two
species in the '20s of the last century, next, at the end of '30s, came M. Simonet. In 1979 the cultivar 'Stilles
Wasser' which appeared by chance from open pollination was registered by E. Berlin. In the '80s T. Tamberg
seriously started to breed these hybrids and realising their great garden value registered some cultivars.
Other breeders followed him and such cultivars appeared in the Check Lists. Tamberg succeeded also with
the conversion of sibtosa to tetraploid form. Unlike the diploids, which according to the theory are sterile, the
tetraploids are fertile

http://www.britishirissociety.org.uk/hybrids_lech%20komarnicki%20feb.2012.pdf

[Paul T]

David,

So you're saying that that clump you pictured is one of the seedlings from an original clump and is the same as that clump?  Given you said it has persisted in the garden for 50 years, I'm assuming that clump itself is not 50 years old?  If they're all the same then that makes a hybrid cross less likely, unless it has been line bred to give identical seedlings.  Quite fascinating, given the age of the original.  Very cool. 

[David Pilling]

Paul - there are clumps that have been in the same spot for 50 years, others have been moved around. But the particular clump in the photo developed itself over the last 8 years - I'd guess from seed, because when it set off it was well out of the way of gardening activity.

All the plants old and new have similar flowers.