Autumn flowering Narcissus 2012

[Anthony Darby]

Gosh. That looks very different with the yellow mid line!

[Gerdk]

Just as Rafa wrote to me it doesn't look like a hybrid - all hybrids of obsoletus/miniatus and serotinus s.str. always show unicoloured yellow petals when opening.
Maybe it's best to test fertility because hybrids are more or less infertile or have at least a reduced seedset.
Very handsome flowers though!

Gerd

[orpheos]

Oron and Gerd i've only a word for descrive your plants:"WOW"

here i 've another plants labelled serotinus that is blooming now.. i think it maybe the true serotinus, it is completely differet from the other one

[annew]

All these autumn narcissi are so beautiful. I admire everyone's skill in growing them so well.

[David Nicholson]

Seconded.

[Rafa]

Matteo, do you have a lateral view of this plants? Narcissus serotinus, rarely has two flowers.

[pehe]

I would like to compare both N. x alentejanus and N. x perez-larae, maybe it will be some diferences in perianth tube.
I think the second picture is N. obsoletus, very nice anyway.

Rafa,
Narcissus x alentejanus again and the second picture of the perianth tube.

Poul

[pehe]

Narcissus miniatus (obsoletus) under glass.

Poul

[pehe]

Now this is new, this morning i have noticed 3 new, identical seedling growing in the N. cavanilesii pots.
I suspect it might be N. obsoletus x cavanillesii

Oron,
Among my Narcissus miniatus in the previous post is a single plant, which looks somewhat like your seedlings.
It has just opened at the first pic. The second pic is 10 days later.

Poul

[Angelo Porcelli]

Poul,

your plants are very nice, I admire a lot all you people in Northern Europe growing these plants, which are native here and I grow almost without care

[Rafa]

Thank you Poul, I will download these pictures.

[Tony Willis]

Some  Narcissus serotinus growing near Vathia in the Peloponnese a couple of days ago

[Rafa]

Tony, these beautiful narcissi are N. obsoletus, Narcissus serotinus only grows in North Atlantic Morocco, South-West Spain and South Portugal; and Narcissus obsoletus is a Mediterranean element.

[Tony Willis]

Tony, these beautiful narcissi are N. obsoletus, Narcissus serotinus only grows in North Atlantic Morocco, South-West Spain and South Portugal; and Narcissus obsoletus is a Mediterranean element.

Rafa

thank you and a not unexpected comment as I know your views on them being different species. I see from your post on the msg forum there are supposed to be difference but they all seem either/or  and not definitive. As an example some of the plants I found had no leaves at flowering and some did although only slightly developed.

I suppose I just believe they are the same with minor natural variations.

[Rafa]

They are different species, believe me. Apart different chromosome count and geographical distribution there are several morphological differences.

Narcissus serotinus hasn't leaves when blooms.
Narcissus obsletus could develop one leaf or not, when blooms.

Narcissus serotinus rarley has two flowers per scape
Narcissus obsletus can develop several flowers per scape

Narcissus serotinus has a pure yellow corona
Narcissus obsoletus has orange/brown corona (greenish/brown at the beginning)

Also they have different corona segment disposition

Narcissus serotinus has a perianth tube like a bottle, with visible segments
Narcissus obsoletus has a perianth tube regular conical


There are some places in Spain where N serotinus and N. obsoletus grow together, maybe N. serotinus can rarely has two flowers per scape, because is in fact an hybrid between both species.

When you are  familiarize oneself with both species is almost impossible to be mixtaken

Here are some pictures from my friend Paco Moreno, who knows very well both species.