Crocus November 2012

[Lesley Cox]

Lesley - David's comment related to C. cartwightianus albus hort.

Most (or all) Dutch stocks of C. ligusticus have been virused for years but are sent out regardless. Dirk's plant,  'Millesimo',  (posted above by Jim F) seems virus free. It appears very similar to the commercial stock, including the poorly developed anthers.

Oh. Sorry Gerry and David.

[Gerry Webster]

Gerry - lovely crocus but ?robertianus,  All the forms I have grown have a very pronounced yellow throat ala sieberi which it often resembles (although with longer floral tube,  Here is one from this week

The plot thickens. I've just had a look at BM who states that the throat is "pale yellow or whitish". This is quite a small plant - much smaller than the garden centre  C. speciosus which I have seen.

[tonyg]

Tony  - I grovel! I must confess I had not looked closely at this plant which came from Pottertons a couple of years ago. Looking at a photo of a plant grown from JJA seed (which is not flowering this year), the throat is certainly yellow. What could this be I wonder? Thanks for pointing  out my error.

edit: I wonder about a form of C. speciosus? -  a species I'm not familiar with.

edit 2: This is the real C. robertianus from JJA seed (flowering last year).

Yes, I wondered about C. speciosus too or maybe C. serotinus although that is one of the earlier flowering plants here and only occasionally has darker veins.  A fibrous tunic makes C. serotinus more easily confused with C. robertianus when dormant.  C. speciosus corms should never be mistaken for C. robertianus.

[Janis Ruksans]

Yes, I wondered about C. speciosus too or maybe C. serotinus although that is one of the earlier flowering plants here and only occasionally has darker veins.  A fibrous tunic makes C. serotinus more easily confused with C. robertianus when dormant.  C. speciosus corms should never be mistaken for C. robertianus.

Crocus speciosus allways has many-branched stigma.
Crocus robertianus is very variable in color - from pure white to lighter or darker lilac, throat varie from light yellow to very deep yellow and I have (or had?) specimen strongly resembling atticus tricolor. If leaves are formed only in spring and tunic is coarsely reticulated - both most likely are robertianus.
Janis

[pehe]

Here is my Crocus robertianus AH.8956 on top of Crocus speciosus xantholaimos. The pics are from 22. October. The quality is not the best but the difference between robertianus and speciosus is clearly visible.

Poul

[Gerry Webster]

Crocus speciosus allways has many-branched stigma.
Crocus robertianus is very variable in color - from pure white to lighter or darker lilac, throat varie from light yellow to very deep yellow and I have (or had?) specimen strongly resembling atticus tricolor. If leaves are formed only in spring and tunic is coarsely reticulated - both most likely are robertianus.
Janis

Thanks for the comment Janis. I thought C. speciosus very unlikely because of the stigma - though I'm not really familiar with variants of that species. I guess I'll have to await the development of the leaves & eventually look at the corm tunics.

[ronm]

Resembles C. cartwrightianus x hadriaticus 'Purple Heart'.

Surely you don't think it is though Armin? Mine is very similar and I have it as the species!!

Beautiful Gerry, a really healthy looking plant. Do you have any growing tips?

[Gerry Webster]

Gerry,
congratulation! Very lovely form

Resembles C. cartwrightianus x hadriaticus 'Purple Heart'.

Armin - I cannot rule out the possibility that this is a hybrid since the two species were in flower at the same time. However I think it unlikely since the seed parent  (C. cartwrightianus) was hand-pollinated

[Armin]

Gerry and Ron,

there are two different 'Purple Heart' cultivars. The first is Janis C. cartwrightianus 'Purple Heart' and the second is C. hadriaticus 'Purple Heart' found and selected by Antoine Hoog. The latter is likely a cross between C. cartwrightianus and C. hadriaticus.

When I saw Gerry's image I had immediately Janis 'Purple Heart' in mind and thought it was of hybrid origin, too.

[Armin]

for comparison
2x 'Purple Heart'
1x Gerry's sdlg

[Janis Ruksans]

Gerry and Ron,

there are two different 'Purple Heart' cultivars. The first is Janis C. cartwrightianus 'Purple Heart' and the second is C. hadriaticus 'Purple Heart' found and selected by Antoine Hoog. The latter is likely a cross between C. cartwrightianus and C. hadriaticus.

When I saw Gerry's image I had immediately Janis 'Purple Heart' in mind and thought it was of hybrid origin, too.

My cartwrightianus Purple Heart isn't selected by me. I baught in in UK where I saw this form at some show in UK, but I gave name to it (at moment can't remember who gave it to me - too bad weather outside for going to greenhouse for label checking). By intensity of color it is close to C. mathewii best forms. Antoines 'Purple Heart' were named later and it was decided that most likely it is hybrid between hadriaticus and cartwrightianus. It is paler by throat colour. Still there are two clones included - one darker, another paler. I still didn't succeed to clean completely my stock from paler form. Yesterday dug out two more plants. Both are nice, but I prefair darker one.
Janis

[Janis Ruksans]

Yesterday we had some sun between very dark and rainy days so few pictures
At first very unusually colored Crocus boryi, collected wild in Greece
Crocus cambessedesii - wilf form got from Erich Pasche
Crocus goulimyi Agia Sofia - again unusual form from Greece
The largest blooming form of Crocus pallasii pallasii seen by me comes from Labranda - very uniform there, Earlier quite abundant there but now population is completely destroyed by wild boars.
Crocus hadriaticus seedling - certainly some hybrid from open pollinated seeds in my collection
And as last today - almost white Crocus robertianus with very dark orange-yellow throat.
Janis

[Armin]

Janis,
thanks for showing such unusually color forms of your exceptional crocus collection and for your comments reg. 'Purple Heart'.
Most of blue/white forms make a fabulous contrast and are very attractive for the beholder.

[Gerry Webster]

My cartwrightianus Purple Heart isn't selected by me. I baught in in UK where I saw this form at some show in UK, but I gave name to it (at moment can't remember who gave it to me - too bad weather outside for going to greenhouse for label checking). By intensity of color it is close to C. mathewii best forms. Antoines 'Purple Heart' were named later and it was decided that most likely it is hybrid between hadriaticus and cartwrightianus. It is paler by throat colour. Still there are two clones included - one darker, another paler. I still didn't succeed to clean completely my stock from paler form. Yesterday dug out two more plants. Both are nice, but I prefair darker one.
Janis

Some time ago (2 years?) there was a discussion on the forum of the C. cartwrightianus  which Janis obtained in England & named 'Purple Heart'. I have a near identical form which I obtained years ago from Norman Stevens. I posted a photo but unfortunately I have lost the original (the photo not the plant). In this plant the central purple zone is intensely coloured & much more sharply defined than in my seedling. As far as I can determine it is pure C. cartwrightianus, not a hybrid, but rather less vigorous than other forms of that species.

[Tony Willis]

Crocus wattiorum in flower today