Crocus November 2012

[daveyp1970]

Dirk,
lovely C. hyemalis. I see your crocus beds are already well prepared for any black frost attacks.

Roma,
you can call you 'lucky' - I would be happy able to say my crocus pulchellus 'gradually taking over my garden'. Not a single one currently with me.
How can crocus ever become a nuisance?

John,
indeed it is one of the most beautiful crocus we know in cultivation. Hope it multiplies with you quickly.

Ian,
nice potful C. asumaniae It is quite difficult to believe C. mathewii is so close related to be considered a form of C. asumaniae.

Does anybody know the latest phylogenetic research results on this?

Armin i just wonder if in the end there are a few sp flying under one banner just like they did for the Vernus complex.

[Gerry Webster]

Ian,
nice potful C. asumaniae It is quite difficult to believe C. mathewii is so close related to be considered a form of C. asumaniae.

Does anybody know the latest phylogenetic research results on this?

Armin - The most recent research I know (Peterson et al, 2008) shows Cc. asumaniae & mathewii
as sister (sibling) species.

[Roma]

Roma,
you can call you 'lucky' - I would be happy able to say my crocus pulchellus 'gradually taking over my garden'. Not a single one currently with me.
How can crocus ever become a nuisance?

Wish I'd known earlier, Armin.  I sent quite a lot of Crocus pulchellus seed to the SRGCseed xchange and scattered the rest in the wood beside my garden.  Please remind me next year and I can send you lots of seed.

[ian mcenery]

Ian,
nice potful C. asumaniae It is quite difficult to believe C. mathewii is so close related to be considered a form of C. asumaniae.

Does anybody know the latest phylogenetic research results on this?

Armin thanks. Asumaniae I believe certainly grows with mathewii and the way to tell the difference is by the purple blotch

Here is my first flower on C caspius. This is a nice bonus since I have been trying for some years to germinate seeds from many sources and last summer  a kind forumist took pity on me and sent me this wonderful starter kit - thanks Ian

[Armin]

Roma,
I'm glad for your kind offer. I'd like to reseed C. pulchellus in the meadow.
I'll remind you next season.

[Armin]

Reg. asumaniae & mathewii.

I believe your explanation of the diffence by color is too simple, Ian 

Dave, there is big difference in the chromosome number (2n=26 asumaniae, 2n=70 mathewii). I'm not aware of any successful crosses between both.
Don't think one can put it under one banner. And, I'm convinced there will be still future surprises in vernus complex.

Gerry, thanks - that's my status of knowledge too.

[daveyp1970]

Reg. asumaniae & mathewii.

I believe your explanation of the diffence by color is too simple, Ian 

Dave, there is big difference in the chromosome number (2n=26 asumaniae, 2n=70 mathewii). I'm not aware of any successful crosses between both.
Don't think one can put it under one banner. And, I'm convinced there will be still future surprises in vernus complex.

Gerry, thanks - that's my status of knowledge too.

Armin where did you get that info from because on the paper it has Mathewii 2n=16
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3221075/
and in my opinion i think its more allied to cartwrightianus but untill the dna mapping is finished we can all guess.
Armin i am intending to cross mathewii next year with all the close allied sp to see what happens.

[ronm]

Reg. asumaniae & mathewii.

Dave, there is big difference in the chromosome number (2n=26 asumaniae, 2n=70 mathewii).

I'm sure I have read this somewhere also. Just can't find it at the moment.

[daveyp1970]

Armin i would also like to point you here as well as the person who wrote that mathewii has a chromosone count of 2n=70.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3221075/figure/F1/  I still do think they will be placed under one banner in the end but i am a lumper and this is only my opinion.I do respect your opinion Armin

[Armin]

I'm sure I have read this somewhere also. Just can't find it at the moment.

My reference is the book 'Crocuses' from Janis.
It seems somewhere happend a typo.

[ronm]

My reference is the book 'Crocuses' from Janis.
It seems somewhere happend a typo.

I used that too Armin.

[Janis Ruksans]

I used that too Armin.

I gave it from FLORA OF TURKEY, vol. 11 - there is mentioned 2n - 70. I haven't possibilities to check chromosome numbers.
Janis

[Afloden]

The most recent, not yet published phylogeny, places hadriaticus and mathewii as sister species. They list 2n=70 for mathewii and 2n=26 for asumaniae. They estimate that their are probably about 150 species in the genus.

 Aaron

[ronm]

The most recent, not yet published phylogeny, places hadriaticus and mathewii as sister species. They list 2n=70 for mathewii and 2n=26 for asumaniae. They estimate that their are probably about 150 species in the genus.

 Aaron

OK .. Let us know please when they publish. Thanks.

[daveyp1970]

Like i said in the beginning it's my opinion,the paper i have put a link is also backed up by a book written by Dr Moshe Negbi the links here  http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=uLSGgd9sEOUC&pg=PA16&lpg=PA16&dq=chromsone+count+of+crocus+mathewii&source=bl&ots=cAwKC6Hw72&sig=wO32PnjIGaUWgKyRCmdWpWCQq1c&hl=en&sa=X&ei=V0mtUOP4DquX0QW2iYHoAw&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q=chromsone%20count%20of%20crocus%20mathewii&f=false  you can see here he states mathewii is 2n=16 and both are published  a few years old and shows hadriaticus as a sister sp but having the same chromosone count  which makes more  sense me(unless Aaron you are saying that chaps work is nonsense and the unpublished work is what i should believe and who do i believe were does the misinformation stop is misinformation being passed on and on because people can't be bothered to do the groundwork), as for the high chromosone count i will be crossing mathewii like i said next year so we will see.Can i just clarify Will a 2n=16 cross with a 2n=70