Sowing info for zigadenus and rubus?

[zephirine]

Hi all!
A friend of mine has received some seeds from B&T, of
- zigandeus elegans
- rubus cissoides... (she has already a nice collection of rubus, but couldn't find this one other than as seeds...)
And she asks me this morning (oh dear! why??? ) how she sould proceed to have them germinated!
Would you please, ladies and/or gentlemen, try to help two adventurous french ladies in distress?

To make it easier, the rubus seed she received was sent for free, as it was cropped in ..2003! And might be too old to germinate properly...

Any experience about germinating zigadenus and rubus, even through other species, would be most welcome and appreciated!
With hope
Zephirine

[Kristl Walek]

Hello Adventurous French Ladies....

The Rubus (assuming it is still viable) will require cold treatment -- outdoors over winter might be the simplest, or 8-12 weeks in the fridge. If your friend wants to determine ahead of time whether the seed is dead or alive, a few seeds can be put on a paper towel, moistened and folded over and put inside a plastic bag. If the seed is still sound after 2-3 weeks (firm, not rotted or attacked by fungi) it is still viable and worth the trouble to provide the cold.

The Zigadenus elegans is an easy, warm germinator. Germination normally begins in 2-4 weeks.

Kristl

[zephirine]

Thanks so much Kristl,for this excellent example of feminine solidarity!
I feel a little more confident, thanks to your instructions.
I guess the rubus seeds have already spent ...months? ...years?... having a cold treatment from B&T, don't you think?
Or should we sow them and THEN put them in the fridge?
There are enough seeds to try all three anyway: some to test the viability, some to stay in the cold for some weeks, and maybe some to sow directly now at room temperature...we'll see!
And enough to send you some (both plants) if you would like to try yourself, naturally! (suggestion from my friend!)
Just tell me if you're tempted!
Please accept our full gratitude anyway!
Zephirine

[Kristl Walek]

We HAVE to stick together, Zepherine, us women, and men, us gardeners....as the industrialized world continues to conspire against our wildflowers...

NO, to your comment about having gotten cold treatment from B&T! The seed would have been kept dry by the seedhouse. And dry seed (even if stored in the freezer) has not received any treatment that is beneficial for germination. Dry, cold seed is only being PRESERVED. To have any actual effect on germination the seed must be cold AND moist. So, yes, you need to sow them and provide the cold.

And thank you for your kind offer of some samples--but I am in the business myself (the seed business that is)---and my life and the freezers are overflowering with seed. There are hundreds of bags still uncleaned from this season (and empty bags still needing to be filled). I am a rich woman!!! 

And Zigadenus elegans occupies a large area of the garden here in cold northeastern Canada.

Kristl

[zephirine]

Oups... I feel a bit ridiculous, Kristl, sorry..
Please forgive me, I just didn't know...And thank you all the more for taking the time to explain to the miserable amateurs that we are
All right, we will do just as you told!
Enjoy your week-end, hoping that it's not as bad as it is here today (wet and cold and grey and cold and sad and cold and ugly and cold and... )
Greetings from France!
Zephirine

[Kristl Walek]

I feel nothing is ridiculous in this plant world we all love---I hope none of us will be shy to ask ANY question--

And just because I run a seedhouse, does not necessarily mean I know anything about seed (there are plenty out there just being run as businesses, not unlike re-sellers of car parts)...but I digress...

I am in love with anything having to do with seed and germination  (my peculiar obsession which I have turned into my life's work). Not so unlike any other obsession, it's a peculiar niche, and how can anyone understand what it is in the nature of narrow obessions? I am sure I could trace it back to my childhood in a small village in southern Germany, or my Czech/Slovakian heritage, or my mother or grandmother, the plantswomen in my life, or....

All I know is if I see a seed, I need to collect it, having done so, I want to sprout it. And if I don't know what it is, or it gives me difficulty, I am even more thrilled, as I try to figure out what it wants...


Kristl

[zephirine]

Thanks for your indulgence with me, Kristl...
I know how you feel..where you seem to be a "serial-sower", I sometimes think I might turn out to be a "serial-cuttinger"(?)
Lol
Zephirine

[Maggi Young]

A few years ago I sowed Zigadenus into a crevice bed..... I had got my packets mixed up and fondly imagined I was sowing something else, rather smaller and more appropriate to the setting.....so, in not too long a time, up come the babies, all looking very neat , if a little unlikely, in the circumsyances..... they grew on steadily for a year or two... now, I realise, somewhat stunted by their postion.... eventually they got fed up with this restricted way of life and put a huge effort into growing to their full size and the first showed a bud.......by this time they were far too big for the bed and had to be removed with some difficulty.... so, after all this tale... my suggestion is to sow the seed where you want the plants to grow... they seem to have no problem in doing so in North East Scotland!

[Kristl Walek]

Maggi said:
my suggestion is to sow the seed where you want the plants to grow... they seem to have no problem in doing so in North East Scotland!

Always a good suggestion....BUT....if you intend to sow direct, do not do so while there is still any warmth left outside. These are easy, warm germinators, and you do not want them to sprout and then be killed by the onset of winter.

So, if you want to sow outdoors, sow as late in the season as possible, or, alternatively, next spring....The seed is relatively long-lived, so viability will not be an issue in waiting to sow them---of course this is assuming you got fresh seed.


Kristl

[Maggi Young]

Yes, Kristl, I should have said to sow in Spring when the ground is warmer. Thanks!

[zephirine]

Thank you both for the advice!
Do you think we might try to sow some indoors, and keep the young seedlings later in the cool (no-frost) greenhouse, maybe?
This is what I do for some warm germinating seeds, all the more easily as I have a heated pavement, and a very efficient "seed nurse", lol...
Zephirine