Galanthus in December

[johnw]

Carolyn -  re: American snowdrops

Hitch has named some snowdrops as has Steve out west (sorry at the moment I forget his last name - not Doonan). There is one named after NARGS' Pat Bender. Probably more  if I went digging through correspondence.  Some of these could very well be in Canada.  And surely Jim must be ready to name a few beauties!

Personally I grow many snowdrops in pots as they are less likely to get mixed up with seedlings and rampant varieties in the garden. And you know where to find them when they're dormant.   As we trade only dormant bulbs or bulbs growing in pots it works for us.  The thought of digging in the green is anathema for me but I've done it as a very last resort.

Nice strong mark on your Potter's there.

The last of the frames get packed this weekend.

johnw +7c and drizzle.

 

[mark smyth]

Very vigorous and available in the UK

I havent seen it on any UK lists

[johnw]

Mark  - I think some forumists have mentioned having it.  Haven't seen it in any of the catalogues that ship to the Comonwealth.

johnw

[johnw]

Make that Steve Vinsky.

johnw

[arilnut]

John, that's Steve Viniski in Oregon.  I have Theresa Stone above ground now, it is
and American named one.  Here it is last February, a little dirty after rain and
cold damage on some leaves.

John B

[JimF]

There have been snowdrops named in the US in the past with several still under evaluation. G. 'Pat Bender' is one Claire Cockcroft named and I introduced. I posted it last year on the forum. I'm told photos shown at talks in the UK generated a buzz. A wonderful memorial for Pat.

G. 'Canadian Winter' is another, named by Barbara Flynn of Washington in 1999 or so, at the suggestion of John Grimshaw who saw it in her garden. An elwesii that blooms in the New Year, is quite nice and substantial, and prolific.

G. elwesii 'Oluna's Mother' (aka 'Oluna's Early form', the former is correct) came out of another Oregon garden several years ago and passed around here for most of this century. A very nice flower.

'Theresa Stone' as John B just said, a very well known one out of Oregon which is noted in "Snowdrops".

As John W said, Hitch Lyman named some, Don Hackenberry (I can't find my old lists! for the names), Steve Vinisky but he stopped selling and breeding because there was little interest in the U.S. while he was breeding them! Hard to believe, but true.

We're such a huge country, and the few galanthophiles of 10-15 years ago were besotted with UK varieties. Few knew of, or paid attention to US varieties, or wanted to pay prices for them - high then, perfect now. Times have changed, but most US breeders gave up.

Don Hackenberry was probably amongst the earliest to list and sell named selections. Frank Galyon was breeding and selecting them in Tennessee earlier, but it's not clear if he named any or just passed around promising clones which others named. I have one which has been referred to as 'Fred Galyon' tetraploid or G. plicatus tetraploid Fred Galyon('s). I'd be interested in hearing from anyone who corresponded with him about his galanthus, or with other US breeders/selectors.

I have many other named forms under evaluation, 'Chubby' being one, which are receiving good reviews - as well as other colors and forms, which I won't mention out loud for fear of killing them by speaking of them!

If we move just 200 miles north onto the "foreign" soil of Canada, but still in North America, we find several named varieties in B.C.: 'Rosemary Burnham' (saved and reintroduced from Washington state, I believe), 'Don Armstrong', and the near mythical 'Snocus', to name just a few.

There are collectors on the East Coast of the US with massive collections who, I suspect, have named or selected forms, but are waiting until stocks are built up. I believe as Galanthomania grows in the US more named and unheralded varieties will be found.

So the quite lovely and welcome 'Potter's Prelude' is following a well trod trail.

Why anyone would grow galanthus in pots? Well, I have no choice. I live in an apartment with a tiny concrete patio in shade and a long narrow bench in the sun. There's no place to plant the over 170 pots of galanthus, nor the 600 plus pots of other obsessions. When freezes come - or plants go dormant - they all go into the garage until it's safe. Good exercise.

A US expert once told me it was impossible to grow them in pots. Not true, which I knew from the large collections I'd seen first in the UK in the 1980s - and still see there.

Growing in pots works very well. I can quarantine new ones, nurse "in the green" gifts which always suffer for a year or two, and use a very well draining soil mix of lots of pumice and a little compost because of our heavy winter rains, repotting annually or biennially. They get varying liquid feeds during growth.

Someday I hope to have land to let them be "free range". But I would still grow many in pots to enjoy inside or to take to rock garden meetings for others to enjoy or to have as ready gifts.

Jim

[johnw]

Wow Jim, most of named Galanthus are familiar to me but to see them all gather in one posting is a bit mind-blowing.  No need to add Canada you folks are doing quite well as it is.

One correction though " 'Rosemary Burnham' "saved and reintroduced from Washington state, ".  In fact Rosemary's original clump at her home was stolen, mercifully the supergenerous and consummate plantsman Don Armstrong of Vancouver, BC came to the rescue with replacements.  Here is an article written by lurker Pam Frost on its history.  Don did the research mentioned back in the days before the internet, back when information was very hard to come by and he phoned when he got a response back from the RHS.  One thing not mentioned there is that the snowdrop was almost named Francesca Darts as it was mistakenly thought that Francisca had discovered this snowdrop.  At this point Don had passed away but many of us knew the correct story and this snowdrop was known as Rosemary Burnham's green elwesii.  There was a lot of frantic behind- the-scenes footwork but all was resolved when I emailed John Grimshaw who nipped that in the bud.  I called Rosemary and got her permission to have John Grimshaw formally register it which he kindly did.   It was a damn close call though; in typical fashion Rosemary was quite content to let the snowdrop be named after her friend Francisca but with the correct spelling!  It took a bit of arm-twisting to het her to to relent.   

Your 'Chubby' looks good. I'd love to see it free-range in a big clump.

Yes Jim "free-range" snowdrops is a splendid idea, once, that is, they are safely bulked up.

johnw -  +8c and drizzle

[Carolyn Walker]

Mark: I realized afterwards that my comment was ambiguous.  I meant that collectors in the UK have 'Potter's Prelude' not that it was being sold there.

John:  I understand that gardeners without space, growers, and people who want to trade might wish to grow snowdrops in pots.  My question was more in reference to the comments on the October thread where the gardeners with space seemed to grow them in pots even when encountering very significant losses.  I was curious if there was something about growing snowdrops "over there" that still made it preferable despite the obvious risks. 

Every spring for over 15 years, I plant in the ground a sample (usually two or more plants) of each new snowdrop sold at my nursery "in the green" to make sure it thrives.  The following spring 100% of these snowdrops have come up and bloomed and often multiplied.  In the green works very well in our mid-Atlantic climate which is totally different from yours in Nova Scotia, the UK, and the Pacific Northwest.  For reference, in July 2012 my area had 21 days in the 90s F (32.2 plus C) and 10 over 95 degrees F.  During the same period it reached 80 degrees F only twice in Seattle.  The same snowdrop growing techniques are not suitable to both places.

Jim:  I love the image of free range snowdrops.  Thank you so much for the info on North American named cultivars.  If you think of any more, please let me know.

[Alan_b]

I grow a lot of snowdrops in pots after a twin outbreak of disease (Stagonospora curtisii) and insect predation (swift moth larvae).  The advantages of pot culture is that the disease or predator is much better confined by the walls of the pot than if the snowdrops were grown "free-range".  In the event of disease (fortunately rare recently) I can discard the entire contents (or just the soil whilst trying to rescue the bulbs).  It's also easy to empty out the contents of a pot and discard the swift moth larvae, although this may come too late for the bulbs.

The disadvantage is that there is much more work involved.  The climate here is relatively mild and I use large pots but I have lost a few bulbs in recent severe winters which may be down to the pots becoming too frozen - I leave my pots exposed rather than sinking them is sand as those in colder climates must.

[JimF]

One correction though " 'Rosemary Burnham' "saved and reintroduced from Washington state, ".

Thanks for setting the record and me straight, John. It was the mention of J. John Flintoff's correspondence with John Grimshaw about 'R. B." cited in "Snowdrops" that made me think John F. had something to do with reintroducing it to the UK, but it must have been about it's origins. (Three different Johns in one small paragraph!)

It's a truly glorious flower and makes a great clump in the garden. I like Rosemary's humble comment that it was different. It's very different.

Let's hope this conversation brings to light other US and Canadian named cultivars.

Jim

[Carolyn Walker]

Let's hope this conversation brings to light other US and Canadian named cultivars.

Jim

I am compiling all the responses on this subject into a document on my computer so anyone else who can add to the list of North American cultivars please join in.

Alan, Thanks for clarifying.  I am thinking from what you said that disease and insect prevalence is just as likely in the ground as in pots so for the reasons you stated pots make it easier to stop the spread.  However, if that is not a concern, it seems that snowdrops grow better in the ground or is that not true?

[johnw]

Thanks for setting the record and me straight, John. It was the mention of J. John Flintoff's correspondence with John Grimshaw about 'R. B." cited in "Snowdrops" that made me think John F. had something to do with reintroducing it to the UK, but it must have been about it's origins. (Three different Johns in one small paragraph!)

Jim  - After the book came out I sent JohnG copies of our original correspondence and he mentioned correcting that for the next edition.  It could very well be that John (Jerry) Flintoff did exactly what I had done as well.  I'm pretty sure the book's reference to <one  perilously close to the edge of the table at the RHS Show in 199....> refers to one of the replacements I had sent over the previous autumn.  About 5 years later it was my turn, I had 50 tunics and one surviving bulbt,  she's back on her feet now.

BTW I had corresponded in those days with JF when he was Jerry F. ut now understand  he's JohnF! As opposed to our the JohnF - kentgardener.  So you're not the only one confused.

[KentGardener]

However, if that is not a concern, it seems that snowdrops grow better in the ground or is that not true?

Hi Carolyn

Due to lack of plating space about 2/3 of my snowdrops are in lattice pots above ground.  I can see no difference between which grow 'better' - those in the ground or those above the ground.   For me they all seem as happy as each other.  I repot every 2 or 3 years.

JohnF   

[Alan_b]

... if that is not a concern, it seems that snowdrops grow better in the ground or is that not true?

That's a very difficult question to answer.  I think if you are not concerned by disease then you have been lulled into a false sense of security.  Even the likes of Matt Bishop have succumbed.  And I have lost a lot of common snowdrops planted-out in my small garden, typically disappearing whilst dormant so they were here one year and gone the next.  For example, I used to have a mixed clump of snowdrops and snowflakes (leucanthemum aestivum) from which all the snowdrops vanished one year.  I suspect that is insect predation because I have found the same larvae in the ground near snowdrops and in pots from which the snowdrop bulbs have vanished.   

[Brian Ellis]

Jim and Carolyn (and of course JohnW), it is really interesting to hear of, and see, those snowdrops that you are growing over the pond.  Thanks for sharing them with us. We must be grateful that you kept G.'Poseidon' going when it was reportedly 'lost' in England.  I often wonder if any other lost snowdrops are still circulating quietly over there.

On another note I do believe 'Potter's Prelude' may once have appeared on eBay?