Pulsatilla 2013

[Olga Bondareva]

Roma Yes I think so. The plant is closer to P. ambigua.
I can show some images of P. turczaninovii made by my friend Andrey Dedov living at Altai. Natural habit of P. turczaninovii.





You can see finely pinnated old brown leaves at the last photo.

[Olga Bondareva]

P. flavescens is a great beauty that I have only learned about on this website.

All lovely but like the others I'm especially taken with flavescens.

I like the species very much. It has large flowers and very hardy.

[Susann]

Dearest Olga, thank you for sharing your very beautiful pictures with us. But, I am sorry to say this; are you really sure you did post the right photos? The first one, with a beautiful flower just opening does not look like a P turzcaninovii at all to me? As you know, they flower together with the leaves, has lilac pistills and usually not that gaping flowers?
And as you already know we do not always agree about P turzcaninovii and P amigua. I will try to post some herbarie specimens and drawings from floras, if I only can figure out how. I also beleive that one has to look at the involucrate leaves, the lenght of the stamens towards the petals, hair etc to be sure wicht species it is. It is a mess. As you say, they belong to the same subsection, Albanae. I will post some photos I belive is P turczaninovii, lets see what you think about them. And, I do think the Gothemburg close-up is correclty labelled?

Oh, I really wish it would be a very easy way to distingues them. One is blue the other red for example...

[Susann]

Ok, I will give it a try...

if it will be possible to see anything the P ambigua is in the middle, the big specimens

this is,  if shown, from a Chinese flora, not Flora of China, P ambigua

P turczaninovii drawing at the bottom in the center. I have forgotten which flora, either Flora of Russia or Flora of China? I couldnīt find the other herbarie specimens, I will post them when/ if I find them. Now I know we will get a long post from Olga with many herbarie specimens and she will prove that she is right and I am wrong about the Gothemburg picture. Looking forward to it!

This I believe is P turczaninovii

and this... If one read the floras and Aicheleīs taxonomy work  ( fed rep 1957) one will find that they are both described as trepinnate but sometimes show bipinnate. The form of the radical leaves seems to vary quite a lot as well, with ovate or more lanceolate form, broader or more narrower pinnates. Oh, a mess..

I find ( what I believe is)  my P turczaninovii very vigorous, as an answer to a Armin. It selfseeds a lot, but as I have so many Pulsatillas in the garden the seedling are not to be trusted.

Darren, I grow my P vernalis everywhere in the garden, in rockeris and in normal borders even in an old vegatable "border" with lots and lots of humus and nutritiens and no sand at all. I thought they would all die, but no problem with surviving but the steams get very long; it is not pretty at all. I live in what is more or less US zone 5 regarding winter coldness but with not very warm summers. Very rainy, though. Often bare frost in winter, could be down to -20 and no snow. Then suddenly heavy snow and the next week raining. It is quite difficult for many species, but P vernalis seems to thrive.
I even saw one on top of limestone garden, in full sun in Czech Republic. It did not look too happy, but was flowering. I will post a photo of a gorgoues plant but unfortunally it has already passet flowering.

[Susann]

Oh, I  am so sorry, when seeing the drawings I just posted in large I realize they are both from the Chinese flora. Neither Flora of Russia nor China then.

But look at this fantastic plant! I am sorry the flowers are way beyond itīs peak. I would have loved to see it when in full flower. But still, the plant is amazing. The seed is from La Thuile, northern Italy, which proves that the golden hair form exists both in Scandinavia and southern Europe. The plant is photographed at the top of a sand heap in Peter Kornīs garden here in Sweden, in rainy Gothenburg area. As it is one of the heaps at the bottom of his garden it might be one of the heaps with running cold water beneat it, but I am not sure about it. I counted to more than 40 flowers!

And what do you say about this very beautiful specimen? Breathtaking, isnīt it? The photo is taken by my friend Sachiyo Yuzawa. She grow all the difficult Asian species with great succes as you can imagen.

 Itīs a Pulsatilla sugawarii.
I am very proud of the only sugawarii that has survived my treatment and difficult winters. It has two small leaves. Perhaps I should not be that proud?

[Roma]

Oh dear!  What have I started
Here is the plant label in Gothenburg Botanic Garden showing the origin of the seed which may help (or not).

[Olga Bondareva]

Susann I really sure I did post the right photos. The first two plants are from wild collected seeds. Other two images are from nature.
First picture is the same plant to second. Yes flowers and leaves grows together and when stems elongate you can see grown leaves. As you can see at the images from Altai. And if you look clearly you can see becoming lilac young pistills.  And yes sometimes even nodding flowers become open at the strong sun.

As both species are first distinguished by russian botanists think is more correct to turn to Krylov, Sergienko and Turczaninov's decription not to Chinese. According to Flora Siberia P. turczaninovii is trepinnate and P. ambigua is bipinnate. P.t. has nodding semi-open flower, P.a. has deflected perianth lobes. Seed arista is long at P.t. and shorter at P.a. etc.

You can see more pictures of P. turczaninovii made and discussed by russian botanists from different parts of country here
http://www.plantarium.ru/page/view/part/0/item/30935.html
and here
http://www.plantarium.ru/page/view/part/1/item/30935.html

I shown of course the most different plants of P. turczaninovii and P. ambigua. There are plants sometimes botanists can't clearly identify. Nature is richer than floras. 

[Olga Bondareva]

Oh dear!  What have I started

Roma you started a very interesting conversation.

[Olga Bondareva]

I found the herbarium plant. Look at the plants especially at the left one. At it's leaves.



And the length of the petals and stamens

[krisderaeymaeker]

Great pictures Susann and Olga ! I am a Pulsatilla lover to !
There are few reasons  :
- Pulsatilla vulgaris stil grows in the wild in Belgium on a few places.
- Pulsatilla was one of my first alpines in the garden .
- The emblem from the Flemisch Rockgarden Society is a Pulsatilla   
 
I enjoy this topic very much . Very interesting discussion also....
The only disadvantage when collecting Pulsatilla 's  are the wrong names . I think many often there are plants that are sold with wrong names.
But nothing better to express the spring then Pulsatilla buds and flowers.   

[Olga Bondareva]

The only disadvantage when collecting Pulsatilla 's  are the wrong names . I think many often there are plants that are sold with wrong names.

Yes. As you can see many species are hard to identify. And also Pulsatillas hybridize easily. Once planted in one small garden species can give children with mixed signs.

[Tim Ingram]

The plant I grew as turczaninovii (from Czech seed) was like several of the pictures with deepest-blue only partly opened flowers, and compact finely cut leaves. The picture on those websites show wonderful variation, particularly in colour - the pale pinks. It seems like pulsatillas just get more exciting the more you get to know about them! I always thought of patens as being North American; but how much more widely is it distributed? I haven't come across flavescens in the UK but I imagine there must be some who are growing it - it could gain the same legendary status as 'Budapest'.

[Olga Bondareva]

And back to images. 

Susann, image of Pulsatilla sugawarii is outstanding! Wish one day I have the same plant... many same plants! 

The less attractive species is P. dahurica. But it is so nice in seeds! Its heads are long-haired!

[Olga Bondareva]

I always thought of patens as being North American; but how much more widely is it distributed?

Tim, Pulsatilla patens is the next species which could be hot discussed.  The center of it's group diversity is Siberia and close areas - Kazakhstan, south Urals, Altai. There are some subspecies of P. patens there - P. flavescens, P. multifida. They show wide color range as well. 
The edges of P. patens spreading now are at the Europe and North America. I've never seen N. American type but saw a lot of European plants. They are mostly the same violet. You can find white very rare.

[Olga Bondareva]

And the species which is confused in Europe again. Pulsatilla campanella.
The true species looks like this.




Sometimes it is brownish or violetish. 
Some additional pictures.
http://www.plantarium.ru/page/view/item/30894.html