Pulsatilla 2013

[Armin]

Josef,
mouth watering images. I'm always impressed and fascinated by mass flowering meadows. So beautiful.
Many thanks for the links.

[Olga Bondareva]

I photograph solely in my garden. Nevertheless, there are images of the locality I spoke about on the web.

Josef, thank you very much for the links! Photographs are outstanding especially the one with high buildings at the background.
I can not see leaves. Plants look like P. patens.

[Great Moravian]

Josef, thank you very much for the links! Photographs are outstanding especially the one with high buildings at the background.
I can not see leaves. Plants look like P. patens.

It is certainly Pulsatilla grandis. You cannot see leaves because there are no
during flowering. It is the distinctive character against Pulsatilla vulgaris.

[Olga Bondareva]

It is certainly Pulsatilla grandis.

No doubts. 

You cannot see leaves because there are no
during flowering. It is the distinctive character against Pulsatilla vulgaris.

It's interesting! Is it the only one difference between these two species?
Does it hybridize with P. vulgaris in gardens?

[zvone]

Thank's Olga!

Best Regards!  zvone

[Great Moravian]

Is it the only one difference between these two species?

In Flora Europaea
vulgaris          
leaves appearing with the flowers, basal leaves usually >100 lobes,
perianth segments narrowly elliptical
grandis
leaves appearing after the flowers, basal leaves +-40 lobes, perianth
segments broadly elliptical

[Susann]

Very beautiful pictures, Josef! Thank you for sharing. As far as I can tell, they all look white-haired to me, though? Do you think you have possibility to look up a golden-haried specimen this spring? It would be even more interesting.

[Susann]

Do you remember that I in the beginning of the thread showed a picture that was taken by a friend, Mr Timo Ikonen, in Finland? The picture showed a beautiful plant that he claimed was a natural hybrid between P vernalis x patens. I wrote that I rather thought it was a white form of P patens. Well, the other day I red in "Flora of Norden" ( Norway, Sweden and Finland) that the hybrid does occur in southern Finland. So, please have a look at the picture and say what you think about it. Thank you

[Maggi Young]

Do you remember that I in the beginning of the thread showed a picture that was taken by a friend, Mr Timo Ikonen, in Finland? The picture showed a beautiful plant that he claimed was a natural hybrid between P vernalis x patens. I wrote that I rather thought it was a white form of P patens. Well, the other day I red in "Flora of Norden" ( Norway, Sweden and Finland) that the hybrid does occur in southern Finland. So, please have a look at the picture and say what you think about it. Thank you

Susann's post  and the photo she mentions is on page two of this thread :
http://www.srgc.net/forum/index.php?topic=9988.msg264212#msg264212


I'll copy her note and the picture here :

The photographer is Dr TIMO IKONEN från Finland. He thinks it is a P patens x vernalis. Could it be? They belong to different subsections but the might grow in same areas. The leaves does not really look as the patens I have seen, when they have broader leaves they are usually palmate? I tend to believe it is a white form of P patens? P vernalis leaves does look as you know as on the picture  but they use to have another segment of lateral leaflets added to it? And the stalks are very high? Let´s see what you say?

[Tim Ingram]

One obvious way of testing this would be to cross plants in a garden setting, or greenhouse, and see the results. However, surely if the hybrid does occur in the wild, it will be in regions where the two species overlap closely and there will be significant numbers of putative hybrid plants? Do Pulsatillas hybridise that easily? Many gardens contain quite a range of species but I haven't heard evidence of obvious hybrids in cultivation where you might expect to see it most clearly.

[Darren]

It does look to have something of vernalis to me. The leaves especially. Plus I note the leaves seem to have overwintered green (they do not look like fresh new leaves), which only vernalis does here.

Does patens keep green leaves through the winter? Earlier pictures on this thread suggest not.

[Natalia]

The familiar botanist from St. Petersburg showed a photo of hybrids P vernalis x patens, which were found in the wild nature.
So such hybrid really exists in the wild nature of Russia.

[Susann]

Dear Friends, thank you for so fast answers!

Do Pulsatillas hybridise that easily? Many gardens contain quite a range of species but I haven't heard evidence of obvious hybrids in cultivation where you might expect to see it most clearly.

Oh, yes, Tim, I am sorry to tell you. Pulsatillas are horrible, they hybridize very very easy. That is one of the reasons of all the confusions about the genus I think? People does not always realizePulsatillas are not trustable.  ( besides it´s complicated nature with a very wide variation in the species themselves). My belief is you can never take a garden pollinated seed and expect it to come true. If you are interested I can show you many pictures of Pulsatillas of garden hybridization said to be true species. My most beautiful hybrid was between P vernalis and P integrifolia. Now dead of course. Treasures are not to be kept.

Plus I note the leaves seem to have overwintered green. Does patens keep green leaves through the winter? Earlier pictures on this thread suggest not.

Darren; very good point of view! And you are correct, P patens does not keep its leaves during winter here in Scandinavia. So, I it is leaning towards I have to admit I was wrong when first publishing the picture.

So such hybrid really exists in the wild nature of Russia.

Natalia, being Swedish I understand if you are having difficulties with the English language. It is really a very difficult language. ( The other day I got an email about rental cars saying "it is down to automatic". I had no idea if it ment it was only to be found with automatic, or only with manual gear. Very frustrating.) I wish you all spoke Swedish, it would be so much easier
I am sorry if I was not clear enough in my last post. My question was not really does hybrids exist in nature? I think we all know that they do, and very frequently? I wanted to know your opinion on the plant showed on the picture. Once you are back on the thread, which is always nice, I would like to say and without wanting to offend you in any way: I strongly does not believe your picture of "P cernua" is correct? I would rather say it is a P dahurica or perhaps a mix between the two.  I do not know from where you got the seeds of course, but even if you collected it in situ you can make mistakes, as they grow in the same area, and yes, hybridize easily.

Keep on posting, this is all very interesting! I am waiting for beautiful pictures from all of you that is already experiencing spring. P halleri for example should be in flower in many places in souther Europe ( Great Britain) right now?

[Tim Ingram]

Susann - thank you for enlightening me about Pulsatilla hybrids for I can only speak from my personal experience with them. A cross between vernalis and integrifolia would be really quite extraordinary. Even so the picture you showed of possible patens x vernalis, if it is this hybrid, would surely not be a solitary plant? It must be important to look at populations and natural variation within different species, but I see very much what you mean about confusion - one of the delights of trying to understand something!

[Lori S.]

And you are correct, P patens does not keep its leaves during winter here in Scandinavia.

Certainly not here either.